Mary mother of God

[Mycroft]

The real burning question here is: If Mary gave birth to Jesus and Jesus is the Lamb of God, did Mary have a little Lamb?

 

[Wharton]

Filled with hatred? You may want to reflect on your own post and those of a couple other catholic people on this forum. Remember when you point your finger at someone else, three fingers are pointing back at you.

Let me ask you this. If a person believes homosexuality is wrong, does this mean that person hates homosexuals? If a person doesn't like President Obama, does that make him a racist, a hater of all black people? How about this? Do you like what you consider to be false teaching? How do you feel about false doctrine? You okay with that?

Disagreeing with the teachings of others is not hatred.

What you're posting about is personal opinion.

What you've been told regarding the married priesthood in the Catholic Church is a FACT. Your opinion and your continued posts stating that there are no married Catholic priests is just a rant.

Click on the link below and see if it satisfies you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/u...-testing-a-tradition.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Wharton]

The whole concept of a middle priesthood is wrong, and forbidding priests to marry has caused nothing but disgrace for the RCC. I've already pointed out to you that one of the qualifications for elders is that they be married, but you twisted that to mean something completely different.

Let me help you out. Jesus is high priest. There was a Levitical high priest. Both were middle men between God and Man.

So there is a middle priesthood.

From my prior post above, we see Jesus offering the todah sacrifice at the Last Supper. Only a PRIEST can offer such a sacrifice.

He tells ONLY the Apostles to offer that sacrifice in remembrance of him.

Question: What does that make the Apostles?

Answer: Ordained priests able to offer the todah sacrifice.

Bingo. Jesus establishes his own personally ordained middle priesthood.

 

[leibowde84]

The false doctrine of Mary the mother of God a trinity.

I know this is not going to go over well with the rc's but these are sincere thoughts on my part and should not be considered hatred for any rc person.

The false doctrine of Mary the mother of God a trinity contradicts the word of God.

The words "Mary mother of God" are not in any verse of scripture; therefore they cannot be every word of God that is purified seven times ( Psa 12:6-7) .

YHWH-YaH Elohim is a Spirit. YHWH-YaH has no beginning or end. He always was and always will be; therefore YHWH-YaH has no mother Mary.

No scripture verse shows any apostles praying a rosary to Mary nor do any believers in scripture pray a rosary to Mary.
.
No scriptures declare YHWH-YaH God in heaven or on earth declaring to Mary "you are my beloved mother."

No scriptures declare the Holy Spirit saying "this is my beloved wife".

ACCORDING TO THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF TRINITY
If Mary was the mother of God the Father, and the mother of God the Son Jesus, and the mother of God the holy spirit that impregnated Mary making her the wife-mother of God.

If Mary and God the Holy Spirit were not married then it would be considered by God as adultery.

For Mary to be the mother of God means Mary had to exist before God existed and it means Mary formed- created God so that God could create Adam and Eve.

Do you think Mary mothered the Father God and the Son God and the Holy Ghost God? If not, which God do you think Mary mothered as the mother of God Or do you think Mary mothered all three?

What would you think of a mother who tells her son that he is her husband, her son and his own father.

If God the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary that makes Mary the wife of God the holy spirit, but not the wife of the Father God nor the wife of God her Son.

Also if Mary birthed God ( the Father ) by God ( the Holy Spirit who impregnated Mary ) that would make Mary the mother of God the Father and the wife of God the Holy Spirit and then again when Christ is born Mary becomes the mother of God the Son: thereby making Mary twice a mother of God and once the wife of God the Holy Spirit.

The last mention of Mary in scripture is (Acts 1:14 KJV) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Mary is called mother of Jesus by Luke. Luke would have gotten the term " mother of Jesus" from Paul or from the churches of Judaea. (Gal 1:22 KJV) And ( I Saul/Paul) was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

The apostle Paul wrote 13 epistles and never calls Mary the mother of God neither do any of the other apostles.

I think that you are trying to present a semantic argument when it isn't appropriate. I think the phrase is just an attempt to identify the fact that Jesus was man and God, even being born to a human mother.

Just out of curiosity, do you not believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus? Do you believe that Jesus was divine?

 

[kepha31]

So I would assume that your god is not timeless/eternal? That he is bound by time?

God is everywhere and in every 'time." It's called the eternal now.

As far as the Lord's Supper, you are confused. First, it was not Passover. The lambs were not yet slain so there is no lamb. Second, they were reclining, not standing as required for Passover. So no Passover.

That leaves one thing. A Jewish Todah which is performed to thank God for saving someone from danger. You gather with friends and EAT the sacrifice. Not a symbol or emblem. But the actual sacrifice.

Yep, Jesus was leading a Jewish Todah which we call the Last Supper. And it is a sacrifice-see below,

Thank offering
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Todah)
Jump to: navigation, search
The thank offering (Hebrew: תֹּודָה, pronounced Todah) or sacrifice of thanksgiving (Hebrew zevakh hatodah זֶבַח הַתֹּודָה ) was an optional offering under the Law of Moses.[1] This is also termed the "thanksgiving offering."[2]

So the Catholic Mass is Jewish at its roots.

Liturgy of the Word as done in the synagogue, even by Jesus.

Liturgy of the Eucharist/Thanksgiving/Todah as done by Jesus at the Last Supper thanking him for our salvation.

If I may embellish:
1 Cor. 11:24.
and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

I think the scriptures are quite clear that it is the sacrifice is the new covenant, the “remembrance” is also used in the context of a sacrifice; objectors are saying the sacrifice is the remembrance.

Jesus is not saying this at all. Its not a social event where we “remember” in the sentimental sense where we recall Calvary via our memory cells from what we learned.

A perpetual ordinance can be a difficult thing for a person to wrap their head around.

Is a covenant a one time event? When a couple makes a covenant on their wedding day, is the marriage a one day event? maybe for celebrities:=) “Do this in remembrance of Me” is not a different sacrifice from Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, and to separate them is unbiblical, unless there is a verse that makes such a distinction. How does one sacrifice a memory? Without the Passover, the death of Jesus is just an execution; the two are intrinsically linked. No Passover is compete without drinking The Fourth Cup, which Jesus did on the cross.

gleaned from www.scripturecatholic.com :
Gen. 14:18 - remember that Melchizedek's bread and wine offering foreshadowed the sacramental re-presentation of Jesus' offering.

Luke 22:19; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 - the translation of Jesus' words of consecration is "touto poieite tan eman anamnasin." Jesus literally said "offer this as my memorial sacrifice." The word “poiein” (do) refers to offering a sacrifice (see, e.g., Exodus 29:38-39, where God uses the same word – poieseis – regarding the sacrifice of the lambs on the altar). The word “anamnesis” (remembrance) also refers to a sacrifice which is really or actually made present in time by the power of God, as it reminds God of the actual event (see, e.g., Heb. 10:3; Num. 10:10). It is not just a memorial of a past event, but a past event made present in time.

In other words, the “sacrifice” is the “memorial” or “reminder.” If the Eucharist weren’t a sacrifice, Luke would have used the word “mnemosunon” (which is the word used to describe a nonsacrificial memorial. See, for example, Matt. 26:13; Mark 14:9; and especially Acts 10:4). So there are two memorials, one sacrificial (which Jesus instituted), and one non-sacrificial.

Lev. 24:7 - the word "memorial" in Hebrew in the sacrificial sense is "azkarah" which means to actually make present (see Lev. 2:2,9,16;5:12;6:5; Num.5:26 where “azkarah” refers to sacrifices that are currently offered and thus present in time). Jesus' instruction to offer the bread and wine (which He changed into His body and blood) as a "memorial offering" demonstrates that the offering of His body and blood is made present in time over and over again.

Num. 10:10 - in this verse, "remembrance" refers to a sacrifice, not just a symbolic memorial. So Jesus' command to offer the memorial “in remembrance” of Him demonstrates that the memorial offering is indeed a sacrifice currently offered. It is a re-presentation of the actual sacrifice made present in time. It is as if the curtain of history is drawn and Calvary is made present to us.

Mal. 1:10-11 - Jesus' command to his apostles to offer His memorial sacrifice of bread and wine which becomes His body and blood fulfills the prophecy that God would reject the Jewish sacrifices and receive a pure sacrifice offered in every place. This pure sacrifice of Christ is sacramentally re-presented from the rising of the sun to its setting in every place, as Malachi prophesied.

Heb. 9:23 - in this verse, the author writes that the Old Testament sacrifices were only copies of the heavenly things, but now heaven has better “sacrifices” than these. Why is the heavenly sacrifice called “sacrifices,” in the plural? Jesus died once. This is because, while Christ’s sacrifice is transcendent in heaven, it touches down on earth and is sacramentally re-presented over and over again from the rising of the sun to its setting around the world by the priests of Christ’s Church. This is because all moments to God are present in their immediacy, and when we offer the memorial sacrifice to God, we ask God to make the sacrifice that is eternally present to Him also present to us. Jesus’ sacrifice also transcends time and space because it was the sacrifice of God Himself.

Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn't bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.

Jesus died once, but His sacrifice to the Father is eternal. Rev. 5:6 - this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is "standing" as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.

 

[kjv4me2you]

Jesus also stated that the Scribes and the Pharisees sit on the Chair of Moses and to do what they tell you but not to do as they do. So Jesus did not abhor traditions.

(John 8:41 KJV) Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

(John 8:42 KJV) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus was not God but said he did come from God.....

(John 8:43 KJV) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

They could not UNDERSTAND THE SPEECH OF JESUS because they could not HEAR JESUS' WORD. Jesus spoke Hebrew but the Pharisees could only hear the speech and word of their father the devil.

(John 8:44 KJV) Ye ( Pharisees ) are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The lusts of the devil their father was done by lying murderers.

(John 8:4 KJV) They ( the Pharisees) say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

(Rev 12:10 KJV) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

(John 8:5 KJV) Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

(John 8:6 KJV) This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

(John 8:7 KJV) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

(John 8:8 KJV) And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

(John 8:9 KJV) And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

(John 8:10 KJV) When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

(John 8:11 KJV) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

THE SEAT OF MOSES DISPENSED THE LAW THAT CAME BY MOSES
(John 1:17 KJV) For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

THE THRONE OF CHRIST DISPENSES GRACE AND TRUTH THAT CAME BY JESUS
(Mat 18:2 KJV) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

(Mat 18:3 KJV) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

(Mat 18:4 KJV) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

(Mat 18:5 KJV) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

(Mat 18:6 KJV) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

(Mat 18:7 KJV) Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

(Mat 18:8 KJV) Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

(Mat 18:9 KJV) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

(Mat 18:10 KJV) Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 18:11 KJV) For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
The Son of man is that seed of Eve (Gen 3:15) who was resurrected by YHWH-YaH as the Second man.

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

Filled with hatred? You may want to reflect on your own post and those of a couple other catholic people on this forum. Remember when you point your finger at someone else, three fingers are pointing back at you.

Let me ask you this. If a person believes homosexuality is wrong, does this mean that person hates homosexuals? If a person doesn't like President Obama, does that make him a racist, a hater of all black people? How about this? Do you like what you consider to be false teaching? How do you feel about false doctrine? You okay with that?

Disagreeing with the teachings of others is not hatred.

Yes Paul said it was better if one could give all of their time to God, but he also recognized the needs of men when he said it is better to marry than burn with lust. I don'tknow of not one married priest in the RCC anywhere.

The whole concept of a middle priesthood is wrong, and forbidding priests to marry has caused nothing but disgrace for the RCC. I've already pointed out to you that one of the qualifications for elders is that they be married, but you twisted that to mean something completely different.

1 Timothy 3:12. “A bishop (elder) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach

(1 Pet 2:25 KJV) For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word bishop is never again used in scripture after AD 65; In 1 Peter 2:25 Peter points out Jesus as the Shepherd and Bishop unto whom our souls returned: Remember Jesus was the seed of his Father David the Shepherd King.

(2 Tim 2:8 KJV) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
(Luke 1:32 KJV) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the YHWH-YaH ELOHIM shall give unto him (Jesus the seed of David ) the throne of his father David:

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

If I may embellish:
1 Cor. 11:24.
and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

Mary the mother of Jesus never ate the flesh of her son Jesus and Mary never drank the blood of her son Jesus in scripture. "Do this in remembrance of me" was never done by Mary the mother of Jesus.

(1 Cor 11:17 KJV) Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
(1 Cor 11:18 KJV) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
(1 Cor 11:19 KJV) For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Paul said: (1 Cor 11:20 KJV) When ye come together therefore into one place,THIS IS NOT TO EAT YHWH's SUPPER.

WHAT IS YHWH's SUPPER IN REV 19:17? IT IS THE SUPPER OF ( YHYWH-YaH ) THE GREAT GOD

(Deu 10:17 KJV) For YHWH-YaH your God is God of gods, and Adoni of adonis, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

(Rev 19:17 KJV) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
(Rev 19:18 KJV) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Do not confuse the feast of Passover with the supper of John 13:1 and also there is no scripture that says the words "Last Supper".

(John 13:1 KJV) Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

(John 13:2 KJV) And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
(John 13:3 KJV) Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
(John 13:4 KJV) He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

(John 13:18 KJV) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

They were eating bread not eating flesh of Jesus nor drinking blood. Drinking blood is never given to a believer by YHWH-YaH.

YHWH gives blood to those murderers who shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
(Rev 16:5 KJV) And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O YHWH-YaH, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
(Rev 16:6 KJV) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

willyah

 

[Wharton]

No Passover is compete without drinking The Fourth Cup, which Jesus did on the cross.

When Jesus said it is finished, it was the end of the todah that began at the Last Supper. He never drank the last cup at theLlast Supper. It was finished on the cross.

 

[kjv4me2you]

I think that you are trying to present a semantic argument when it isn't appropriate. I think the phrase is just an attempt to identify the fact that Jesus was man and God, even being born to a human mother.

Just out of curiosity, do you not believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus? Do you believe that Jesus was divine?

I believe (John 3:6 KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Mary ( Acts 1:14) the mother of Jesus was flesh ( John 3:6 ). Jesus was not born of Spirit until he was about 30 years of age.

(Gal 4:6 KJV) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father

(John 20:17 KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


(Luke 3:22 KJV) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him ( Jesus the son of Mary Acts 1:14) , and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Holy Spirit = spirit son Christ.

BORN AGAIN
Born again happens to all flesh sons of God who believe (John 20:31 KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

JESUS IS THAT CHRIST
(John 6:68 KJV) Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
(John 6:69 KJV) And we believe and are sure that thou ( Jesus) art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus is the Christ.
Jesus is that Christ.

In Luke 3:22 Jesus became that Christ when at age 30 he was anointed by YHWH-YaH with YaH's spirit Son Christ.

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

So I would assume that your god is not timeless/eternal? That he is bound by time?

God is everywhere and in every 'time." It's called the eternal now.

As far as the Lord's Supper, you are confused. First, it was not Passover. The lambs were not yet slain so there is no lamb. Second, they were reclining, not standing as required for Passover. So no Passover.

That leaves one thing. A Jewish Todah which is performed to thank God for saving someone from danger. You gather with friends and EAT the sacrifice. Not a symbol or emblem. But the actual sacrifice.

Yep, Jesus was leading a Jewish Todah which we call the Last Supper. And it is a sacrifice-see below,

Thank offering
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Todah)
Jump to: navigation, search
The thank offering (Hebrew: תֹּודָה, pronounced Todah) or sacrifice of thanksgiving (Hebrew zevakh hatodah זֶבַח הַתֹּודָה ) was an optional offering under the Law of Moses.[1] This is also termed the "thanksgiving offering."[2]

So the Catholic Mass is Jewish at its roots.

Liturgy of the Word as done in the synagogue, even by Jesus.

Liturgy of the Eucharist/Thanksgiving/Todah as done by Jesus at the Last Supper thanking him for our salvation.

The term Last Supper does not appear in Holy Scripture.

willyah

 

[Wharton]

The term Last Supper does not appear in Holy Scripture.

willyah

You'll eat one too, one day and that's a fact. A last supper.

Here's my proof of a Last Supper.

 

[kjv4me2you]

You'll eat one too, one day and that's a fact. A last supper.

Here's my proof of a Last Supper.

The words Last Supper do not appear in Holy Scripture.

willyah

 

[Wharton]

The words Last Supper do not appear in Holy Scripture.

willyah

How about Boys Night Out then?

 

[kepha31]

The words Last Supper do not appear in Holy Scripture.

willyah

The Last Supper is the final meal that, in the Gospel accounts, Jesus shared with his Apostles in Jerusalem before his crucifixion. "Final meal" is not explicit in Holy Scripture either, but anyone with two functioning brain cells knows that the Passover meal was the LAST meal Jesus ate.

Jesus loved his mother, but because the words do not appear in Holy Scripture, does that mean it's not worth believing? Or do you classify the concept as a tradition of men?

 

[kepha31]

Quatermass sig:

Western civilization has given us the miracles of modern science, the wealth of free-market economics, the security of the rule of law, a unique sense of human rights and freedom, charity as a virtue, splendid art and music, a philosophy grounded in reason, and innumerable other gifts that we take for granted as the wealthiest and most powerful civilization in history.

But what is the ultimate source of these gifts? Bestselling author and professor Thomas E. Woods, Jr. provides the long neglected answer: the Catholic Church. Woods's story goes far beyond the familiar tale of monks copying manuscripts and preserving the wisdom of classical antiquity. In How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, you'll learn:

• Why modern science was born in the Catholic Church
• How Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
• How the Catholic Church invented the university.
• Why what you know about the Galileo affair is wrong
• How Western law grew out of Church canon law
• How the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

No institution has done more to shape Western civilization than the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church-and in ways that many of us have forgotten or never known. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is essential reading for recovering this lost truth.

"It should be noted that one of the main contributors to the development of the university and education in general during the Medieval Times was the pope himself. Aside from the Church’s intellectual role in fostering the universities, the papacy played a central role in establishing and encouraging them. Naturally the granting of a charter to a University was one indication of this papal role. Eighty one universities had been established by the time of the Reformation.”
Thomas E Woods (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization chapter 4: The Church and the University pg. 48)
"The more you know the less you believe" sounds catchy and is popular with atheists, but it doesn't hold water. Believers invented the university, so the "smart" atheists cut off the branch they sit on.

"Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38 (CCC 159)

 

[kjv4me2you]

The Last Supper is the final meal that, in the Gospel accounts, Jesus shared with his Apostles in Jerusalem before his crucifixion. "Final meal" is not explicit in Holy Scripture either, but anyone with two functioning brain cells knows that the Passover meal was the LAST meal Jesus ate.

Jesus loved his mother, but because the words do not appear in Holy Scripture, does that mean it's not worth believing? Or do you classify the concept as a tradition of men?

You made a good point when you said "Jesus loved his mother". Jesus loved his own and Mary was his own as were his apostles and disciples, of which none of them were roman catholic, protestant nor any other denomination of man that has come into existence in the last 2000 years. Only YHWH-YaH is ETERNAL TRUTH.
Because some man made doctrines appear as archaic, is no guarantee that it is truth. Remember the devil the father of lies is archaic and existed before man. ( Rev 12:9 KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


(John 13:1 KJV) Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Notice that Jesus having loved his own never taught his own that Mary his mother should be glorified. Notice also in scripture that the apostles and disciples who were not Roman Catholic never glorified Mary. Jesus and the apostles never said a Hail Mary. The apostles never asked Mary to pray for them now and at the hour of our death.


Mary was at the cross of Jesus Christ but no scripture indicates Jesus asked her to pray for him at the hour of his death.

(John 19:25 KJV) Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

(John 19:26 KJV) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

John 19:26 does not say the disciple standing by Mary was John. Many assume because the verse also says " whom he loved" but we know Jesus " having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end."

(John 19:27 KJV) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

The disciple in John 19:27 was a brother of Jesus. Mary had other sons besides Jesus who became disciples of their brother Jesus.

(Acts 1:14 KJV) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.


(John 20:17 KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(John 20:18 KJV) Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples ( brethren) that she had seen the master, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Mary Magdalene did not say she saw YHWH-YaH Elohim but rather she said she saw the master.

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

The real burning question here is: If Mary gave birth to Jesus and Jesus is the Lamb of God, did Mary have a little Lamb?

The Lamb of God is an attribute used by God to describe something of YHWH-YaH in terms that man can understand.
Mary did have the Lamb of God but the Lamb of God did not follow Mary to school one day.

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

Quatermass sig:

Western civilization has given us the miracles of modern science, the wealth of free-market economics, the security of the rule of law, a unique sense of human rights and freedom, charity as a virtue, splendid art and music, a philosophy grounded in reason, and innumerable other gifts that we take for granted as the wealthiest and most powerful civilization in history.

But what is the ultimate source of these gifts? Bestselling author and professor Thomas E. Woods, Jr. provides the long neglected answer: the Catholic Church. Woods's story goes far beyond the familiar tale of monks copying manuscripts and preserving the wisdom of classical antiquity. In How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, you'll learn:

• Why modern science was born in the Catholic Church
• How Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
• How the Catholic Church invented the university.
• Why what you know about the Galileo affair is wrong
• How Western law grew out of Church canon law
• How the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

No institution has done more to shape Western civilization than the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church-and in ways that many of us have forgotten or never known. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is essential reading for recovering this lost truth.

"It should be noted that one of the main contributors to the development of the university and education in general during the Medieval Times was the pope himself. Aside from the Church’s intellectual role in fostering the universities, the papacy played a central role in establishing and encouraging them. Naturally the granting of a charter to a University was one indication of this papal role. Eighty one universities had been established by the time of the Reformation.”
Thomas E Woods (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization chapter 4: The Church and the University pg. 48)
"The more you know the less you believe" sounds catchy and is popular with atheists, but it doesn't hold water. Believers invented the university, so the "smart" atheists cut off the branch they sit on.
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"Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."38 (CCC 159)

(Mat 20:25 KJV) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
(Luke 22:24 KJV) And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

(Luke 22:25 KJV) And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

(2 Cor 1:24 KJV) Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

willyah

 

[kepha31]

You made a good point when you said "Jesus loved his mother". Jesus loved his own and Mary was his own as were his apostles and disciples, of which none of them were roman catholic, protestant nor any other denomination of man that has come into existence in the last 2000 years. Only YHWH-YaH is ETERNAL TRUTH.

Brave words from a person in a non-denomination that was founded less than 20 years ago.

Because some man made doctrines appear as archaic, is no guarantee that it is truth. Remember the devil the father of lies is archaic and existed before man. ( Rev 12:9 KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Adding a verse to your anti-church mantra will not give it credibility. For the fifth time, show me a doctrine that is not found or inferred in scripture instead of ranting about them and we can discuss one at a time sensibly.

(John 13:1 KJV) Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Notice that Jesus having loved his own never taught his own that Mary his mother should be glorified. Notice also in scripture that the apostles and disciples who were not Roman Catholic never glorified Mary. Jesus and the apostles never said a Hail Mary. The apostles never asked Mary to pray for them now and at the hour of our death.

Then you are blind to the first 3/4 of the "Hail Mary" that comes directly from scripture, where the center of the prayer is on Jesus.

Mary was at the cross of Jesus Christ but no scripture indicates Jesus asked her to pray for him at the hour of his death.

We pray TO Jesus, what makes you think anyone should pray FOR Jesus? You are getting more creative in your Catholic bashing.

(John 19:25 KJV) Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

(John 19:26 KJV) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

John 19:26 does not say the disciple standing by Mary was John. Many assume because the verse also says " whom he loved" but we know Jesus " having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end."

(John 19:27 KJV) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Yea, but would she be welcome in your home?

The disciple in John 19:27 was a brother of Jesus. Mary had other sons besides Jesus who became disciple of their brother Jesus.

Since none of the reformers taught this doctrine of demons, it's safe to say it was invented long after the reformation, probably the 18th century, and made popular by evangelicals/non-denoms in the last fifty years. You are in no position to accuse anyone of following "traditions of men". It's a doctrine of demons because it diminishes the uniqueness of Christ and the Ark of the New Covenant.

(Acts 1:14 KJV) These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Don't you find it odd that Mary is the only woman mentioned by name? If there were about 120 "brethren", Mary would have to be sequentially pregnant for over 90 years. Your eisegesis of "His brethren" is absurd.