Martin Luther King’s dream? Did it include riots and lockdowns?

[jbg]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

 

[Secret Chief]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

Shouldn't this be in the North American politics forum? eg CHAZ and CHOP mean nothing to me.

 

[Stevicus]

Shouldn't this be in the North American politics forum? eg CHAZ and CHOP mean nothing to me.

Well, it's in Political Debates, so I guess that's as good as any for this kind of debate. I remember hearing about CHAZ and CHOP during the riots of 2020, but I forgot what they were supposed to mean. Some cordoned off areas taken over by rioters where they felt like they were in charge for a little while.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

Someone once said "A riot is the language of the unheard."

 

[Secret Chief]

Someone once said "A riot is the language of the unheard."

And it is true.

 

[Stevicus]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

I think Martin Luther King was an advocate of change through peaceful protest and non-violence. Though he well understood that there were those who did want to affect change through violent action. MLK's approach seemed the favored one, at least in terms of how public opinion perceived the Civil Rights Movement. If it was more violent or revolutionary, that would have scared the middle class and could have been detrimental to the overall cause.

Of course, there were riots and violence, both back then and in 2020 (and quite a few times in between), but they were ultimately contained and life went back to normal. I remember the L.A. riots in '92 were pretty bad, too.

 

[VoidCat]

During Martin Luther's time wasnt there folk who said his protests were violent even if they weren't? I remember seeing a political cartoon about it. It's hard for me to believe the blm protests were actually violent knowing this

 

[VoidCat]

There's the comic.

 

[VoidCat]

View attachment 70545
There's the comic.

Here's an article explaining the comic. It was found in a newspaper back in the 1960s
https://www.cbr.com/martin-luther-king-jr-cartoons-depictions-1960s-media/

 

[Stevicus]

During Martin Luther's time wasnt there folk who said his protests were violent even if they weren't? I remember seeing a political cartoon about it. It's hard for me to believe the blm protests were actually violent knowing this

There were some violent protests during that time, although there were a lot of different protests led by different people. MLK led a few protests, but most were led by others.

In many cases, the protesters were peaceful, but it was the police who were violent.

MLK was certainly no saint, and no doubt there were plenty who wanted to make him look bad and drum up political opposition to the cause of Civil Rights. But I don't think he actually planned or desired any violent uprising. As a practical matter, he was smart enough to know that it was an impossibility that was never going to happen.

I don't know where that political cartoon came from; I can't see the signature or the copyright as to which publication it originated from. I did a bit of searching for it, and all I can find is that it was published in 1967. That was the Summer of Love, and the year that The Doors came out with their first album. That same summer, I got stung by a few dozen yellow jackets in the Adirondacks.

 

[VoidCat]

There were some violent protests during that time, although there were a lot of different protests led by different people. MLK led a few protests, but most were led by others

Oh yeah i know there were violent protests dont get me wrong. Malcom X i believe was one guy that was in support of violence.

Edit: i just need proof that the blm protests were mostly riots to the scale that folk on the right say they were. So far from people I've talked to who actually been in said protests they were peaceful at least some of the ones folk went to. Im sure some of the protests were violent riots but im not sure it was to the scale the right makes it out to be.

 

[Stevicus]

Oh yeah i know there were violent protests dont get me wrong. Malcom X i believe was one guy that was in support of violence.

Edit: i just need proof that the blm protests were mostly riots to the scale that folk on the right say they were. So far from people I've talked to who actually been in said protests they were peaceful at least some of the ones folk went to. Im sure some of the protests were violent riots but im not sure it was to the scale the right makes it out to be.

I think most peaceful protesters do so in good faith, although people are people, and sometimes they can be goaded, agitated - once they're all together and in a crowd setting. I guess there's a certain thing about the psychology of crowds.

Even in a protest, someone has to take charge, or at least, there has to be some sort of unified "discipline" among the protesters where they all know the dos and don'ts. But there's always going to be a few who fall out and become hot and violent. That may not necessarily be the fault of the protest leaders, although that would depend on other factors.

There was definitely violence at many of the 2020 protests; I don't think anyone has denied that. I think it's more a question of the degree of violence, how many people actually committed violence (versus how many remained peaceful), and whether it was sanctioned by some sort of organized faction. But it all seemed pretty disorganized.

 

[VoidCat]

I think most peaceful protesters do so in good faith, although people are people, and sometimes they can be goaded, agitated - once they're all together and in a crowd setting. I guess there's a certain thing about the psychology of crowds.

Even in a protest, someone has to take charge, or at least, there has to be some sort of unified "discipline" among the protesters where they all know the dos and don'ts. But there's always going to be a few who fall out and become hot and violent. That may not necessarily be the fault of the protest leaders, although that would depend on other factors.

There was definitely violence at many of the 2020 protests; I don't think anyone has denied that. I think it's more a question of the degree of violence, how many people actually committed violence (versus how many remained peaceful), and whether it was sanctioned by some sort of organized faction. But it all seemed pretty disorganized.

That's what im talking about. I know there was violence just am questioning the degree of that violence

 

[sun rise]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

You have no idea what Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr, stood for and what he taught and how he acted. You have no idea what happened when millions of people's hopes and aspirations got shattered when he was assassinated. In addition, your knowledge of history is in general hazy at best.

 

[Augustus]

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising[a] was the 1943 act of Jewish resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto in German-occupied Poland during World War II to oppose Nazi Germany's final effort to transport the remaining ghetto population to Majdanek and Treblinka death camps.

After the Grossaktion Warsaw of summer 1942, in which more than a quarter of a million Jews were deported from the ghetto to Treblinka and murdered, the remaining Jews began to build bunkers and smuggle weapons and explosives into the ghetto. The left-wing Jewish Combat Organization (ŻOB) and right-wing Jewish Military Union (ŻZW) formed and began to train. A small resistance effort to another roundup in January 1943 was partially successful and spurred Polish resistance groups to support the Jews in earnest.

The uprising started on 19 April when the ghetto refused to surrender to the police commander SS-Brigadeführer Jürgen Stroop, who ordered the burning of the ghetto, block by block, ending on 16 May. A total of 13,000 Jews were killed, about half of them burnt alive or suffocated. German casualties were probably fewer than 150,[citation needed] with Stroop reporting 110 casualties [16 killed + 1 dead/93 wounded].[4]

The uprising was the largest single revolt by Jews during World War II. The Jews knew they couldn't win and that their survival was unlikely. Marek Edelman, the only surviving ŻOB commander, said their inspiration to fight was "not to allow the Germans alone to pick the time and place of our deaths". According to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the uprising was "one of the most significant occurrences in the history of the Jewish people".[6]

 

[Valjean]

As a disciple of Gandhi, MLK was practicing satyagraha, and would not have approved the riots, but his was not the only civil rights philosophy around at the time.
Stokely Carmichael was OK with a violent tit for tat, and Malcolm X was hardly a pacifist.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

wo people spoke at a gathering that I attended this morning. One was a nursing student in Atlanta in April 1968. The other was at a gathering of consultants in Washington DC in April 1968. Both were told by well-meaning people to lock themselves in their rooms after the assassination and remain there for about 36 hours. This was “for their safety.“

Was Martin Luther King’s dream that there would be deadly rampages in his honor? Did Martin Luther King dream that “peaceful“ protesters would torch major US cities after George Floyd’s murder, and in other cities create “occupation zones” such as CHAZ and CHOP?

What riots occurred in response to the Holocaust, or Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination?

I think King's dream was that people would have no reason to behave like that, that they would treat one another better than they still do by now.

 

[SomeRandom]

I think people are far too eager to criticise the methods instead of examining what is being asked for.
When pushed far enough, even the most pacifist of us may resort to more “extreme” methods because that’s all they have left.
Why should people smile and be polite when asking for better treatment?
Why should the downtrodden be expected to be pillars of morality when they are treated like garbage?
And as soon as one steps a toe out of line, suddenly they’re a disgrace to MLK. Who yes would not like violence, opted for peace. But he was not the only voice screaming for justice and humane treatment. Just one of those trying to achieve that through more peaceful methods. Arguably more as an example to the civility of mankind. And look where that got him?
Shot for his troubles and without a proper way for recompense.

So whilst I regard MLK highly and indeed he was an honourable man. He can also serve as a reminder that there are those who would not give him any respect and even brutalise the efforts because they knew he couldn’t fight back. Since doing so would be considered a compromise to his professed methods.
People are nice and they are spit in the face as a result. People give back what they are given and are called rioters for their efforts to get a point across. You can’t win

 

[jbg]

I think people are far too eager to criticise the methods instead of examining what is being asked for.
When pushed far enough, even the most pacifist of us may resort to more “extreme” methods because that’s all they have left.
Why should people smile and be polite when asking for better treatment?
Why should the downtrodden be expected to be pillars of morality when they are treated like garbage?
And as soon as one steps a toe out of line, suddenly they’re a disgrace to MLK. Who yes would not like violence, opted for peace. But he was not the only voice screaming for justice and humane treatment. Just one of those trying to achieve that through more peaceful methods. Arguably more as an example to the civility of mankind. And look where that got him?
Shot for his troubles and without a proper way for recompense.

So whilst I regard MLK highly and indeed he was an honourable man. He can also serve as a reminder that there are those who would not give him any respect and even brutalise the efforts because they knew he couldn’t fight back. Since doing so would be considered a compromise to his professed methods.
People are nice and they are spit in the face as a result. People give back what they are given and are called rioters for their efforts to get a point across. You can’t win

The Jews weren't "downtrodden" for thousands of years before WW II? Or treated like "garbage" or worse? How much post-Holocaust property destruction and torching of buildings by Jews was there? You are apologizing for behavior no civilized society could tolerate.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The Jews weren't "downtrodden" for thousands of years before WW II? Or treated like "garbage" or worse? How much post-Holocaust property destruction and torching of buildings by Jews was there? You are apologizing for behavior no civilized society could tolerate.

If you don't understand how protests, even violent ones, can be a direct consequence of mistreatment and injustice, then you have absolutely no right whatsoever to talk about history - much less evoke the philosophy of a man like Martin Luther King, who would have found your ignorance of history and rhetoric abhorrent.

Also, how dare you insult your own people by evoking their genocide as an example of what "civilized society" could tolerate. Jewish people were disarmed, disempowered and utterly divorced from any reasonable means of reprisal against their persecution. Your argument amounts to little more than cheering on the peaceful resistance of Jews as they were lead to the gas chamber - many of whom, given the chance, would have rightly fought and killed for their lives if they felt like they could; such as at the Rosentrasse Demonstration, which resulted in nearly 2,000 Jews being freed from imprisonment.

Disgusting.