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Martial Arts and Religion
- Thread starter john2054
- Start date
I doubt you'd drop much from 14k.
I was about 4k when I last played 10 years or so ago.
I've never played on line. I've always lived near enuf a local club with many dan level players to whup me arsch. There are a few other players here....Sojourner is one. Go always struck me as a rich analog for combat & war, particularly the latter (more so than any variant of chess).
I was about 4k when I last played 10 years or so ago.
I've never played on line. I've always lived near enuf a local club with many dan level players to whup me arsch. There are a few other players here....Sojourner is one. Go always struck me as a rich analog for combat & war, particularly the latter (more so than any variant of chess).
john2054
Member
Well to be honest with you i can't stand sitting at a table for hours on end with some other smelly old gezzers reminiscing over some moves i should have made ten years ago, at that very table! The advantage of playing online is that you get to play quickies, and by that i mean 16-13 minutes each way no time added per move. I like playing those games, and i think it gives me a good feel for the game. Aside from the daily punishments my dad meters out to me at our local coffee shop. As for the analogy of fighting, im not so sure about that. Chess is more a one on one, whereas in a real right you typically have to deal with multiple uke. That being said i do think there is much to be learnt from over the board, as indeed there are from books, as surely this university program which i am presently doing insists!
Chess is a single battle, while go is a war with many simultaneous battles raging. The single most difficult thing I find is to assess each move in light of not just local effect, but how it will affect other battles.
I've played quick games, but I find that I develop bad habits....like not watching the big picture.
Btw, I hated it when the geezers smoked. Fortunately, that's been banned most places now. Slate & shell stones on a kaya board.....now that is playing. (My portable set is katsura though.)
I've played quick games, but I find that I develop bad habits....like not watching the big picture.
Btw, I hated it when the geezers smoked. Fortunately, that's been banned most places now. Slate & shell stones on a kaya board.....now that is playing. (My portable set is katsura though.)
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Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
Go is the epitome of abstract puzzle solving. chess is the best way to utilize known resources. Shogi even is a bit more complex than chess. But go is incredibly simple but incredibly difficult.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
What about non Japanese and non western stiles, such as Kalari (Indian Martial Arts), spirituality and martial arts come together to form our vary own fighting style, although i am not a practitioner here are some sites for those interested.
Kalaripayattu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
kalarippayatt - 27 Romford Rd. London E15 4LJ - Full Time School.
Indian School of Martial Arts - Center for Kalaripayattu and Kalarichikilsa
john2054
Member
I could probably write a book on what chess can and does do to you. I am not sure about the cross over between the games, whether for example in go there is an opening, middle and end game. Or whether there are recognized go grandmasters across the ages, the likes of whom morphy, Nimzovitch, Fischer and Kasparov so amply demonstrate on that oldest of pastimes. Indeed a few months ago i finished downloading a large collection of tutorials on chess. Do they even have these for go, or those other games you mentioned???
Go also has the opening, middle, & end game. There are go luminaries spanning many centuries. Even though theory & practice have evolved over millennia, the greats demonstrate keen insight....Shusaku, Go Seigen, Cho Chikun, (Killer) Kato Masao (my favorite). There are many books & tutorials...I'm sure you could find'm on line.
A big difference between chess & go is complexity. Go is played on a 19x19 board, & a game typically takes 300 to 400 moves. This is the primary reason that computer chess programs can play at the highest level, but in go, the complexity precludes using playbooks & decision trees to gain advantage. Human pattern recognition is so much better than software, that programs cannot challenge expert go players.
Go (game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I like that it's one game where humans can humiliate machines (if the machines are programmed to experience this emotion). Some day, AI will advance to the point where this is no longer true, but until then....we rule!
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I'm Muslim and I don't see a problem with martial arts at all. As a matter of fact, Islam recommends the capable people to learn the arts of defense so they can defend themselves and their weak against incoming abuse.
Other than that, I don't see any relationship between religion and the actual performance of martial arts.
Other than that, I don't see any relationship between religion and the actual performance of martial arts.
From about 5 to 14 (I think) I trained solely in traditional martial arts, then from that time until I was about 20 I trained in both TMA and MMA (the traditional martial arts I trained in were mostly Japanese: Jujitsu, Aikido, Bujinkan Ninpo, Karate (which originally is Okinawan but the styles I trained in were not), and some Judo that was mixed in with MMA classes & training. However, I did have the unbelievable luck to live near the headquarters of YMAA, where one of the foremost experts on Chinese martial arts lived (Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming), and there I trained mostly in White Crane but also Long Fist and Tai Chi, and spent a lot of time working on chin na techniques. There were many times during this period where I tried to connect to spiritual sides of the martial arts (either by choice or because it was expected), but never really found much of it meaningful. For the past 10 years I've trained solely in styles I refer to as combatives (because the first several courses I took were for military and paramilitary personnel, and that's what they were called) and outside of courses at training facilities like Gunsite, Academi/Blackwater, Valhalla, and Sig Sauer's academy I've pretty much done only Krav Maga with some techniques or styles such as Muay Thai, BJJ, etc., that the school I attend bring in either as guest instructors or as part of the regular program. Needless to say, there isn't a great deal of spirituality/religion, excepting those times in which I pray to a god I don't believe in that the pain will stop or that the instructor pick someone else to demonstrate a kimura or similar lock/hold. "Train like you fight" may be the best way to prepare for the real thing, but it sure doesn't feel good.
john2054
Member
Hi Legion, well u sure sound legit mister. my take is aikido, and i read a lot from the aiki (gentle harmony/energy) way of this style. I think softness has a close favour with the chinese martial arts, although i could well be mistaken. seeing as about the only understanding i have of your style comes from a book i have read on c kung fu by wong kiew kit, and some bruce lee films i have seen! Do they count??
Unfortunately my knowledge of Japanese & Chinese languages is basically nil and my studies outside of books by martial artists on the history of martial arts is limited, but what I've read is in complete accord with what you say. In fact, often Japanese and Chinese styles have as their origin legend that of the Indian founder of the Shaolin Temple- Bodhidharma. Also, ki and qi are cognate terms, and much of the small-circle technique in jujitsu & aikido styles seems to have originated in chin na techniques from various Chinese martial arts. I recall being told by Stephen Hayes that ninpo was closer to Chinese martial arts than is Karate or Jujitsu because it is "softer" (I am paraphrasing here, and I only met him once so only heard this once), and in training a lot of aikido technique, orientation, and "essence" (that's not the right word, but is as close as I'm going to get) was quite similar to the "soft" styles of Chinese martial arts. I've always thought of it as the "soft" Japanese martial art, the kind of practice that is effective very quickly in terms of discipline and humility and other things that aid in avoiding conflicts but very, very, very slow when it comes being effective in actual combat/self-defense. However, from what I've seen of those who've dedicated 30+ years to aikido, once it is effective it is VERY effective.
Bruce Lee and Jet Li always count! More seriously, I'm not very familiar with the author you mention (he's similar to an ex-teacher of mine and has his detractors as anybody who puts out that amount of literature will) but there are some really good authors who have dedicated much of their study not just to preserving and teaching martial arts but also its history (Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming & Darrell Max Craig spring to mind immediately). Then there are those like Ashida Kim, anything coming out of Paladin Press, and even pretty legitimate practitioners who are more intent on providing themselves with accolades through publishing sensationalist books about the secret power of X style/tradition. Again, having read 1 (maybe 2?) books by Wong Kiew Kit I can't say for certain how great he is at covering the relationships between different styles but he's definitely a master and definitely knows whereof he speaks.
It does count. Fencing actually informed a lot of Bruce Lee's technique. Not that it would need to in order to be a martial art in its own right, of course.
Nooj
none
i think martial arts - like anything - can be a form of askesis: exercise or training or formation of the spirit. but one does not exercise or develop the spirit for its own sake, but for the sake of others and for god. one does not become a self to become a self, for self-ish reasons, one becomes a self to stop being self-ish.
another form of spiritual exercise for me is cooking.
i don't like how martial arts - like anything - can become a form of prideful craving.
it can fan the flames of pride, it can encourage spiritual illness.
for example some people seek to hurt other people. some people seek to feel better about themselves by being better than other people. i think that is wrong.
another form of spiritual exercise for me is cooking.
i don't like how martial arts - like anything - can become a form of prideful craving.
it can fan the flames of pride, it can encourage spiritual illness.
for example some people seek to hurt other people. some people seek to feel better about themselves by being better than other people. i think that is wrong.
Before Kung fu became mostly synonymous with "Chinese martial arts", it referred to the energy devoted over time to the perfection of an art/craft/practice. To the extent "martial arts" refers to traditional martial arts in which there is often a spiritual component as well as an emphasis on discipline, striving for perfection (heck, iaido is an entire martial art with one move- drawing the sword; however, this move is done thousands and thousands of times as the practitioner attempts to be as close to perfect in form & movement as is possible)., and other similar aspects then I would agree. In fact, the reason Kung Fu is synonymous now with Chinese martial arts is because martial artists in China were known to be particularly dedicated to the perfection of their art.
That said, "martial" means "relating to war, military, or combat". So in that sense martial arts are those systems which involve training to fight.
The two ways of looking at it are rather interesting in the resulting diversity. One the one hand, the first sense of "martial art" gives us practices like cooking, playing a musical instrument, etc. On the other, training to execute different dynamic entries into a building with an m4 or mp5 along with the rest of your SWAT team is a martial art in the second sense, as is learning to make improvised explosives & incendiary devices or how to properly place (even shape) explosives & demolition charges.