• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Many Mansions in the afterlife

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The following excerpts are from a book entitled The Afterlife Revealed by Michael Tymn. His description of the afterlife closely parallels what the Baha’i Faith teaches although it goes into much more detail. I found it fascinating so I wanted to share it with everyone here. Unfortunately, the book is not online to read, so I had to type this up.

“All major religions teach that in some manner human consciousness survives bodily death and sooner or later is awakened in a nonmaterial environment. Nirvana, Gan Eden, Heaven, Paradise, Sheol, Purgatory, Hades, Gehenna, and Hell are some of the names assigned to afterlife destinations. These environments ranged from indescribable and incomprehensible bliss to unspeakable and unimaginable torment. Seemingly, a life of love and service should result in a blissful state, but some major belief systems hold that even a life devoted to love and service is not enough to warrant the blissful environment in the “afterlife” if the individual has not bowed to the proper Savior or God or has not fully subscribed to the particular dictates of its particular dogma and doctrine. The predominant religious thinking seems to be that we end our earthly lives being labeled either “righteous” or “wicked” – no in-between – and our new environment is either positive or negative.

In the blissful state, we should find, according to some religions, souls who led selfish and hateful lives but who repented on their deathbeds or “found” their Savior just before dying and suddenly became righteous. Among the tormented, we should expect to find souls who led righteous lives for most of their years but who transgressed just before dying or never recognized their Savior.

It is difficult to reconcile much of what major religions consider the proper station in the afterlife with the loving, forgiving, and just God they see as governing that afterlife.

In John 14:2, Jesus says, “In my Father’s house are many mansions. If it were not soI would have told you.” Greek scholars tell us the Greek word translated to mansions originally meant a stopping place or a temporary abode. The usual orthodox Christian interpretation is that is that Jesus was referring only to Heaven. However, modern revelation suggests that Jesus was referring to the whole spectrum of the afterlife, from what is termed Hell on “up” through different realms or planes or spheres until we reach Heaven. This is somewhat consistent with the Buddhist view holding many states until reaching Nirvana or true Heaven and it is the primary lesson coming to us through Spiritualism. These states are also referred to as spheres, planes, realms, dimensions, and levels of vibration. They involve moving from darkness in the lower spheres to overwhelming brightness on the higher ones. The third sphere or plane, referred to by Spiritualists as “Summerland,” is said to be where the average decent soul finds him- or herself immediately after death. The conditions there are said to be much the same as on the earth plane.

Emanuel Swedenborg* wrote that he discovered infinite diversity in “heaven” and “countless communities” during his clairvoyant explorations. Like Swedenborg, Edgar Cayce, the famous American “sleeping prophet” of the last century, also told of taking a tour of many realms during one of his out-of-body experiences. He described how he encountered a stream if light he knew he must follow. In the lower or darker realms he saw “forms” that were floundering or lost and seeking the light. As the light grew stronger and stronger, he arrived at a place where individuals appeared much as they do today. Some seemed content, while others were striving for greater knowledge and light.

As discussed in Chapter I, Dr. George T. Dexter, A New York physician, reluctantly became a medium and began receiving many profound messages from Swedenborg and Sir Francis Bacon. On May 22, 1853, Swedenborg communicated that the moral condition of the spirits of the lower spheres does not appear to differ materially from the moral condition of the unprogressive man in our world. “They many, it is true, have moments when their spirits yearn for the brighter spheres beyond their dark plane, when conscious of its birthright, the soul awakens to a sense of its own degradation, and realizes its true situation,” he wrote through Dexter’s hand, “but they live and act as unprogressive man does, daily performing their accustomed round of malicious action, and carrying out the designs of their blunted perceptions; and it is not till some event, out of the ordinary occurrences of life, arouses them completely and opens their understanding to the reception of truth, that they begin to progress. There is so little difference in the whole action of spirit-life from your life, except that one step forward has been made – I do not refer to higher spheres, of course – that the correspondence is almost exact. (1)

Swedenborg went on to say that spirits in the lower spheres live as if they do not realize there is anything beyond their own misty dwelling places, and as if they are incapable of being impressed with good and true.

On September 25, 1853, one of the circle sitters, a Mr. Warren, asked Bacon what impelled spirits in the lower and darker spheres to choose to go there and remain indefinitely. “The reason is obvious,” Bacon replied. The great law of like attracting like obtains throughout the whole of the spheres. When a departed spirit enters into the spheres, he is at once attracted where he finds congeniality of place and persons. They could not be happy in the bright spheres. They could find no enjoyment where there is either virtue or goodness. Thus their first efforts are to locate themselves where the acquired attributes of mind in all its workings may be gratified. Their bodies are gross and their minds still grosser. (2)

Bacon added that there is in this condition of both body and mind a state which rejects magnetically all above and they are compelled to take a place appropriate for their moral advancement or lack thereof. He said that the law of affinity is manifest as much in the higher spheres as in the lower, and that no spirit can become bad all at once or good instantly, adding that the law of progression and retrogression is in full force in all spheres.

Within two or three years of the communications coming through Dr. Dexter, Professor Robert Hare received similar messages. As he came to understand the afterlife environment, there are many graduations between the lowest degree of vice, ignorance, and folly and the highest degrees of virtue, learning, and wisdom. When we cross over to the other side after physical death, we take our place based on what Hare called a “moral specific gravity, “ as discussed in Chapter V.....

As soon as he was convinced that the phenomena were credible reports from spirits of the dead, Hare began asking about their abodes, their modes of existence, their theological doctrines, and diversities of their situations. He was told that there are seven spheres, the terrestrial sphere occupied by humans being first, while the second sphere is where depraved spirits find themselves until they can begin the process of purification that allows them to ascend to higher spheres. When spirits reach the seventh sphere, they are entitled to enter the supernal heaven. He was also informed that there are no visible boundaries between spheres, but spirits have a peculiar sense which makes them understand when they are passing from one sphere to another.

“The most favorable idea of heaven given in Scripture seems to be that which identifies it with Paradise,” Hare, wrote. “In other words, a most beautiful garden. But who would conceive an eternal residence in one garden, however superlative its attractions, as desirable? The idea of the spheres assumes a succession of gardens, with every pleasure, every joy of which the human heart and intellect are capable; and beyond those gardens the whole universe is open to us, and an ultimate ministration as angels under our Heavenly Father.” (4)

Hare’s disincarnate father further explained that the spirit goes to a sphere for which it is morally and intellectually adapted; thus, the first sphere above the terrestrial one, i.e., the second sphere, is the abode of “degraded” spirits, meaning not only evil spirits but “misdirected” ones as well. He pointed out that there are millions of such spirits in the second sphere, what religions call Hell, Hades, or Purgatory, who are groping and unable to free themselves from the fetters of earthly conditions. This sphere is said to be the sphere of as many spirits as all the five spheres above it. Nevertheless, contrary to the teachings of many religions, the spirits on this sphere are not permanently confined there as “onward and upward” is the motto of the spirit world. Sooner or later, spirits from higher levels are able to reach them and help them see the light.

Because of the barriers spirits much overcome in communicating with the material world, the senior Hare warned his son to discern the messages and not take everything literally: As there are no words in the human language in which spiritual ideas may be embodied, so as to convey their literal and exact signification, we are obliged ofttimes to have recourse to the use of analogisms and metaphorical modes of expression. In our communion with you we have to comply with the peculiar structure and rules of your language; but the genius of our language is such that we can impart more ideas to each other in a single word than you can possibly convey in a hundred.” (5)......

Each sphere, the senior Hare said, is divided into six circles, or societies in which congenial spirits are united and subsist together according to the law of affinity. While these spirits generally agree immoral and intellectual matters, there are individual differences and some disagreements. Spirits united by ties of consanguinity and marriage may or may not be linked together in the spheres and in the same society. It depends on the affinity between them, including the level of advancement. However, a spirit in a higher sphere can pass to a lower one to visit with loved once. But a spirit can never ascend to the higher spheres until fully prepared for such a transition.”

(Michael Tymn, The Afterlife Revealed, pp. 6-11)

(Continued on next post)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
“Each society has teachers from those above, as well as from higher spheres, whose duty it is to impart knowledge acquired from their in instructions and experience. “Thus, by receiving and giving knowledge our moral and intellectual faculties are expanded to higher conceptions and more exalted views of the great Creator, whose almighty power is no less displayed in the constitution of spirit worlds, than in that of the countless resplendent orbs of space.” (7)

But they do more than study. It was explained that they have many source of intellectual, moral, and heartfelt enjoyment from which they derive ineffable pleasures, one of which is social reunions and convivial meetings – a coming together of friends, brothers, sisters, children, and parents, where the tenderest affections are excited and the fondest and most endearing reminiscences are awakened, where spirit meets in unison with spirit........”

Martha reiterated much of what her brother had heard from their father and from Maria. She also mentioned that the second sphere, or first spiritual sphere, is the abode of those spirits whose desires are low and sensuous. They maintain interests in the things that attracted them on earth until their moral faculties become strengthened. Each individual in the spiritual world, she explained, is judged and suffers according to the deeds done in the body........

When Anglican priest William Stanton Moses*, also a reluctant medium, asked the apparently advanced spirit known as Imperator about the spheres, Imperator explained that they are states, not places, as Moses understood them. The difference between the spheres, he said, is based upon the moral, intellectual, and spiritual state of the inhabitants. Imperator went on to say that the progress of spirits is made through seven states, during which the spirits laboring either to purge away the contracted impurities of earth or to gain further knowledge to prepare oneself for a life of contemplation. “The first three spheres are near about your earth,” Imperator communicated. “They are filed thus. The first with those who, from many causes, are attracted to earth. Such are they who have made little progress in the earth sphere; not the wholly bad, but the vacillating, aimless souls who have frittered away their opportunities and made no use of them. Those, again, whom the affections and affinity for pursuits of their friends restrain them from soaring, and who prefer to remain near the earth sphere, though they might progress. In addition, there are the imperfectly trained souls whose education is still young, and who are in course of elementary training; those who have been incarnated in imperfect bodies, and have to learn still what they should have learned on earth. Those, too, who have been prematurely withdrawn from earth, and from no fault of their own, have still to learn before they can progress.” (14) ......

To pass from one sphere to another, he said that there are channels or clearings, much like tunnels, which have been bored mentally. When Drayton asked his father about the governing forces involved in the various spheres or planes, his father answered: When one is fitted only for a low plane, no desire to be on a higher or more beautiful one would suffice to take one there. The habit of life on earth decides, and not any chance desire. If a man has qualified for a lower sphere, he will find himself thee and d he cannot get away from it. That is just and right, and it saves a vast amount of supervision. According as the soul moulds itself while in the body, so it decides the place to which it must go on leaving the body. Those who simply live in the physical senses find themselves exceedingly limited on leaving earth. We wish such people understood the facts, so that they might realize how fatally unwise and short-sighted is their manner of life.” (16)

The senior Thomas, who said he was on the third sphere, explained that the lower the sphere, the more correspondence there is with places on earth. One can even find slums and other undesirable features of earth cities. As one advances to higher spheres, there is less and less resemblance to earth conditions. Although he had not been to those higher spheres, teachers from higher spheres had so informed him. Moreover, as one advances towards the seventh sphere, he will find more perfect operation of divine law or principle. He added that there are trees, grass, and flowers in his sphere as well as other forms which he could not describe because they were beyond his son’s conception and language.

Etta, Thomas’s sister, communicated that spirits on the lower spheres are unable to see or grasp the divine plan and those on earth are also unable to understand it. “If the whole plan were given to you at once, you would probably be dazzled, confused, weighed down by it,” Etta explained. On those high spheres it is difficult for them to explain to me how they know things, because they can comprehend the whole, and although they are no longer in close touch with detail, yet detail is attended by them; for they do perfectly what they undertake.” (17) .......

“Looking very far ahead indeed, I know there is a great destiny which awaits us some day, somewhere, somehow,” the senior Thomas told his son.” “We shall continue to be ourselves, but in a state higher than anything realized upon these spheres. I know that there is a world above and beyond our present one, but I do not seek to know too much until it is given to me.” (18)

A century earlier, Andrew Jackson Davis reported that many souls continue to subscribe to the same religious beliefs they held in the physical world. He referred to this sphere, or section of the sphere, as Altolissa. “Jews still believe in the doctrine of their fathers – Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the Roam Catholics hold the same views they did before death; and there are other sects in Altolissa who think and believe in the same things and forms of faith they learned on earth,” he stated, adding that they are so far below the ‘higher planes’ that this is required in order to make them feel ‘at home.’ However, all eventually evolve toward a single understanding of spirit. (20)

Almost without exception, we are told of progressive spheres, realms or planes by various communicators. It is often reported that there are seven basic planes, giving some credence or “Seventh Heaven” mythology, but many of the spirits claim they do not know how many planes there are because they only know the plane on which they live, those below, and perhaps, as with Mattson, those immediately above. Like Mattson and Thomas, many communicators have reported that they have been able to visit higher planes for a short period, but that the light there is too great for them and they are forced to return to their proper abode.

“These worlds above us are even richer in light and happiness,” Mike Swain communicated to his father, Jasper Swain, after Mike was killed in a head-on collision. “If I go up there, and I can, I find it too bright; the light hurts my eyes. And the vibrations are so refined that I can’t respond to them! So I reverse gear and return to this world – which suits me just fine.”

Mike Swain went on to say that the planes below him are denser and dimmer. “If I go down to them, it becomes murkier and murkier until it is so creepy that I scoot back here where I belong.”

“It is like knowledge,” said Silver Birch, a spirit entity, who spoke through the British trance medium Maurice Barbanell* for some 50 years, ending around 1980. “The more you have, the more you realize there is further knowledge to be gained. The sphere or plane on which you exist in our world contains individuals at the same state of spiritual development as you are. You can’t go spiritually higher until you are ready. You can go lower, as many of us do in order to perform missionary work among the unenlightened beings in the lower spheres. Progress consists of shedding imperfections and striving and growing toward perfection at all times.” (22)

Reaching the highest sphere is sometimes referred to as “merging with the whole” or achieving “Oneness” with the Creator. This is not particularly appealing to some people as it suggests that we give up our individuality. Silver Birch said this is not the case. “The ultimate is not the attainment of Nirvana,” he communicated. “All spiritual progress is toward increasing individuality. You do not become less of an individual. You develop latent gifts, you acquire greater knowledge, your character becomes stronger, more of the divine is exhibited through you... You do not lose yourself. What you succeed in doing is finding yourself.” (23)

Philip Gilbert, a sailor killed in World War II, communicate extensively with his mother, Alice Gilbert, by means of automatic writing. “The more I learn and merge into my true self, the more difficult it is to express what I see and do,” he told her. “The only absolute certainty is that I, the central I, is unchanged and somewhat as you knew me, only more so. But my form dissolves and reforms itself at will now, for I can think myself into any semblance I please, to do my work,” (24)

Frederic Myers communicated much the same message. “The merging with the Idea, with the Great Source of spirit, does not imply annihilation,” he said. “You still exist as an individual. You are as a wave in the sea; and you at last entered into Reality and cast from you all illusions of appearances. But some intangible essence has been added to your spirit through its long habitation of matter, of ether the ancestor of matter, of what the scientists call empty space, though, if they but knew it, empty space is peopled with forms of an infinite fineness and variety.” (25)

(Michael Tymn, The Afterlife Revealed, pp. 11, 12, 14-19)

1 Edmonds, John & Dexter, George T., Spiritualism, Partridge Brittan, New York, 1853, p. 230
2 __________ p. 203
4 Hare, Robert, M.D., Experimental Investigation of the Spirit Manifestations, Partridge Brittan, New York, 1855, p. 142
5 __________ p. 96
7 __________ p. 89
14 Moses, William Stainton, More Spirit Teachings, Meilach.com, Sec. II, p. 8
16 __________Thomas, Charles Drayton, Life Beyond Death with Evidence, W. Collins Sons. & Co., Glasgow, 1928, p. 168
17 __________ p. 170
18 __________ p. 217
20 Davis, Andrew Jackson, Death and the After Life, Colby & Rich, Boston, 1865, p. 95
22 Ballard, Stan A. & Green, Roger. The Silver Birch Book of Questions & Answers, Spiritual Truth Press, London, 1998, p. 39
23 __________ p. 162
24 Gilbert, Alice, Phillip in the Spheres, The Aquarian Press, London, 1952, p. 93
25 Cummins, Geraldine, The Road to Immortality, The Aquarian Press, London, 1955, p. 72
 

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
A bit long for my taste. I do hope you find those who will engage in your query.

angels-stars-blue-sky-merry-christmas-wishes-image.gif
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A bit long for my taste. I do hope you find those who will engage in your query.

angels-stars-blue-sky-merry-christmas-wishes-image.gif
Thanks. I posted it more for information than for conversation, but I am willing to discuss it with anyone who wants to discuss it. :)

Not all people think or care about the afterlife but it is a topic of interest to me.
 
I read it all despite the leghth.

I agree with how the many mansions was explained. Many levels are many states of mental being. The states based on vibrations, charector, motives, love/hate ect.

I also heard this before too when studying the rosecrusians.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
WOW!!

THANKS for taking the time to type all that up and sharing it here!

FINALLY something I can "sink my teeth into" as they say. All this man made spiritually void mythology/religions has me bored and frustrated. Bored with so much pseudo-"spiritually" and frustrated at how I cannot even begin to discuss anything truly spiritual without their making a total mess of everything I state.

Anyway, I would like to comment on this over time, as there's a LOT of ground to cover, and it's already getting late here.

My background on this topic all started when I was a very little child, a toddler, during a drowning.

I was in the water and it was COLD. But I was mesmerized by what my parents were saying on the bank so was only partially aware that I no longer felt so COLD. I thought that maybe I was on a big rock or something. But then realized that "I" was now ABOVE them, so just had to look down to see how this was happening??!! And so I looked down to see if I was on a rock, but didn't see my feet, instead I only saw my body floating face down in the water below me! A shock went up my spine. I then did a complete "back-flip" looking for the rest of me, but saw NOTHING. Yet I could still see and hear my parents??!! I couldn't understand what was happening to me. But then my train of thought was broken as I realized that "I" had drifted even higher up and then suddenly I was whisked into this empty void where I could not see, hear, or feel anything. The only thing I had to cling to were my own thoughts to mark my own existence. So I was terrified that if I stopped thinking, that "I" would not exist anymore. But God told me that it was ok to stop thinking, that everything would be fine if I did. But I could not let go of the overpowering FEAR, and kept trying to think of things to think about. Then I believe God made me suddenly stop thinking because it just happened without any action on my part, and then my spiritual sight kicked in and I could "see". I could also "feel" everything around me, and there was GOD. Then I was "asked" what I had done "wrong", but had no answer because I was way too young to do much of anything, let alone do anything bad or evil. So was found blameless and then shown many spiritual matters before being returned to "life". However, it didn't stop there as I was profoundly changed forever, and found I had many spiritual gifts, and some time later used what I was shown about my soul to "return" to what most call "Heaven" and have had a lifetime of spiritual experiences there.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
So much of what you posted I can relate to, some I think was misinterpreted or maybe I missed something in my own spiritual experiences.

But the one thing I will comment on for now is all this breaking "Heaven" down into "mansions", "Heavens", "spheres", etc. I always have a problem with that. Now I suppose most people like to break everything down into little easy to comprehend tidbits, but I find that just gets in the way of understanding the BIG picture. But in trying to understand WHY they do this, my theory is that people have been conditioned to use only their carnal mind, so have no idea how to access, let alone use their soul that can greatly transcend one's understanding upon spiritual matters.

Now here's how I can best explain this so I hope some will be able to understand.

The True God is the vast and all powerful soul/spiritual energy Deity who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. God is the living universe, and so the universe is the living God.

Now one of the rare few half-truths in the bible is that "we" are created in God's image. But again, since most people are conditioned to thinking ONLY in PHYSICAL terms, they think that means that "God" looks like people. But the True God is SPIRITUAL in nature, so that belief can only really mean that it's our spiritual SOULS that are diminutive versions of God's vast and powerful soul/himself.

So if we use our soul as a model, we can better understand God. And so here we go, into where I'll probably lose everyone. One of the first things I learned about my soul, other than it's being nothing but invisible spiritual energy, was that my thinking was no longer orientated as coming from my head area as I no longer had a "head". And it was instead concentrated as coming from the CENTER of my existence. With it diminishing as my soul extended outward.

So if you can follow me so far, this explains all this "mansions", "Heavens", "spheres", etc". As it's basically the SPIRITUAL realm of God/himself. And so going back to my statement that:

"The True God is the vast and all powerful soul/spiritual energy Deity who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. God is the living universe, and so the universe is the living God."

It's the same principle as what I discovered about my soul. Although I must add here that not only is God's core thinking in his "center", his energy therefore gets more refined as one travels towards the center. And this is where I believe people break it down into bite sized "levels". But I always have just viewed it as all of God, without any "boundaries".
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I read it all despite the leghth.

I agree with how the many mansions was explained. Many levels are many states of mental being. The states based on vibrations, charector, motives, love/hate ect.

I also heard this before too when studying the rosecrusians.
It was kind of long, but just think how long it took for me to type it.... Mind you, I never took a typing class so I just ad lib... I am pretty fast but...

The book is all really good, so I had to pick out the parts I thought would be most useful.

It makes perfect sense that since there are many different levels of being in this life, those would carry over to the afterlife. Of course knowing this BEFORE we die is of utmost importance since it can help encourage people to acquire better character while they still can. I believe change is possible after we die but it won't be nearly as easy as it is here.... Think about how difficult it is here and you can imagine how difficult to be AFTER we die.... not a pretty picture at all. :eek:

I am a very logical person so I understand the implications.... :rolleyes:
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
WOW!!

THANKS for taking the time to type all that up and sharing it here!

FINALLY something I can "sink my teeth into" as they say. All this man made spiritually void mythology/religions has me bored and frustrated. Bored with so much pseudo-"spiritually" and frustrated at how I cannot even begin to discuss anything truly spiritual without their making a total mess of everything I state.

Anyway, I would like to comment on this over time, as there's a LOT of ground to cover, and it's already getting late here.

My background on this topic all started when I was a very little child, a toddler, during a drowning.

I was in the water and it was COLD. But I was mesmerized by what my parents were saying on the bank so was only partially aware that I no longer felt so COLD. I thought that maybe I was on a big rock or something. But then realized that "I" was now ABOVE them, so just had to look down to see how this was happening??!! And so I looked down to see if I was on a rock, but didn't see my feet, instead I only saw my body floating face down in the water below me! A shock went up my spine. I then did a complete "back-flip" looking for the rest of me, but saw NOTHING. Yet I could still see and hear my parents??!! I couldn't understand what was happening to me. But then my train of thought was broken as I realized that "I" had drifted even higher up and then suddenly I was whisked into this empty void where I could not see, hear, or feel anything. The only thing I had to cling to were my own thoughts to mark my own existence. So I was terrified that if I stopped thinking, that "I" would not exist anymore. But God told me that it was ok to stop thinking, that everything would be fine if I did. But I could not let go of the overpowering FEAR, and kept trying to think of things to think about. Then I believe God made me suddenly stop thinking because it just happened without any action on my part, and then my spiritual sight kicked in and I could "see". I could also "feel" everything around me, and there was GOD. Then I was "asked" what I had done "wrong", but had no answer because I was way too young to do much of anything, let alone do anything bad or evil. So was found blameless and then shown many spiritual matters before being returned to "life". However, it didn't stop there as I was profoundly changed forever, and found I had many spiritual gifts, and some time later used what I was shown about my soul to "return" to what most call "Heaven" and have had a lifetime of spiritual experiences there.
Thanks so much for sharing your spiritual experience. I was hoping this would elicit such sharing. Admittedly, I never had a spiritual experience of my own, but I have read a lot about them so I think i understand a lot, although not on an experiential level.

All the NDEs and the spirit communications seem to have certain things in common which to me indicates that they are real and not fabricated. Also, my religion teaches essentially the same things about the soul and the afterlife that come through in these experiences, although it does not go into any detail, so real life experiences are further confirmation. But the gist from my religion is that the spiritual world is much broader and there are many worlds of God, and there is no way to actually describe the joy and gladness we will experience when we cross over because there are no words adequate to describe a spiritual world that is so different from this world. Being the curious sort, I guess that is why I go poking around for more information.

One might wonder why someone like me who has not actually had an NDE or a spiritual experience would be so interested in the afterlife, as all people in my religion do not share my zeal. Most of them are too busy living THIS LIFE, but I find this life really shallow and empty, quite boring, except for spiritual things I can read about and discuss... The material world can just disappear for all I care. I love animals and nature and some people, that is about it. You can have the rest.

One big question I have about the afterlife is what happens to nonbelievers as not much is written in scriptures. I do not believe in the heaven and hell dichotomy Christians believe in so that is off the table. So what happens to people who did not believe in God or people who hated the god they did not believe in? I can make some guesses by reading between the lines of scripture but those are just guesses. One reason I am so concerned is because many/most of my friends are atheists although now some of them have come around after talking to me for years and they say that God probably exists, but we cannot know anything about God, as I say we can.

Anyway, now I am rambling... I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your story.... Real life experiences tend to bring to life what I already know, and I am very visual so the descriptions help a lot. :)

I hope to discuss this with you more later, as time allows.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
The following excerpts are from a book entitled The Afterlife Revealed by Michael Tymn. His description of the afterlife closely parallels what the Baha’i Faith teaches although it goes into much more detail. I found it fascinating so I wanted to share it with everyone here. Unfortunately, the book is not online to read, so I had to type this up.

“All major religions teach that in some manner human consciousness survives bodily death and sooner or later is awakened in a nonmaterial environment. Nirvana, Gan Eden, Heaven, Paradise, Sheol, Purgatory, Hades, Gehenna, and Hell are some of the names assigned to afterlife destinations. These environments ranged from indescribable and incomprehensible bliss to unspeakable and unimaginable torment. Seemingly, a life of love and service should result in a blissful state, but some major belief systems hold that even a life devoted to love and service is not enough to warrant the blissful environment in the “afterlife” if the individual has not bowed to the proper Savior or God or has not fully subscribed to the particular dictates of its particular dogma and doctrine. The predominant religious thinking seems to be that we end our earthly lives being labeled either “righteous” or “wicked” – no in-between – and our new environment is either positive or negative.

In the blissful state, we should find, according to some religions, souls who led selfish and hateful lives but who repented on their deathbeds or “found” their Savior just before dying and suddenly became righteous. Among the tormented, we should expect to find souls who led righteous lives for most of their years but who transgressed just before dying or never recognized their Savior.

It is difficult to reconcile much of what major religions consider the proper station in the afterlife with the loving, forgiving, and just God they see as governing that afterlife.

In John 14:2, Jesus says, “In my Father’s house are many mansions. If it were not soI would have told you.” Greek scholars tell us the Greek word translated to mansions originally meant a stopping place or a temporary abode. The usual orthodox Christian interpretation is that is that Jesus was referring only to Heaven. However, modern revelation suggests that Jesus was referring to the whole spectrum of the afterlife, from what is termed Hell on “up” through different realms or planes or spheres until we reach Heaven. This is somewhat consistent with the Buddhist view holding many states until reaching Nirvana or true Heaven and it is the primary lesson coming to us through Spiritualism. These states are also referred to as spheres, planes, realms, dimensions, and levels of vibration. They involve moving from darkness in the lower spheres to overwhelming brightness on the higher ones. The third sphere or plane, referred to by Spiritualists as “Summerland,” is said to be where the average decent soul finds him- or herself immediately after death. The conditions there are said to be much the same as on the earth plane.

Emanuel Swedenborg* wrote that he discovered infinite diversity in “heaven” and “countless communities” during his clairvoyant explorations. Like Swedenborg, Edgar Cayce, the famous American “sleeping prophet” of the last century, also told of taking a tour of many realms during one of his out-of-body experiences. He described how he encountered a stream if light he knew he must follow. In the lower or darker realms he saw “forms” that were floundering or lost and seeking the light. As the light grew stronger and stronger, he arrived at a place where individuals appeared much as they do today. Some seemed content, while others were striving for greater knowledge and light.

As discussed in Chapter I, Dr. George T. Dexter, A New York physician, reluctantly became a medium and began receiving many profound messages from Swedenborg and Sir Francis Bacon. On May 22, 1853, Swedenborg communicated that the moral condition of the spirits of the lower spheres does not appear to differ materially from the moral condition of the unprogressive man in our world. “They many, it is true, have moments when their spirits yearn for the brighter spheres beyond their dark plane, when conscious of its birthright, the soul awakens to a sense of its own degradation, and realizes its true situation,” he wrote through Dexter’s hand, “but they live and act as unprogressive man does, daily performing their accustomed round of malicious action, and carrying out the designs of their blunted perceptions; and it is not till some event, out of the ordinary occurrences of life, arouses them completely and opens their understanding to the reception of truth, that they begin to progress. There is so little difference in the whole action of spirit-life from your life, except that one step forward has been made – I do not refer to higher spheres, of course – that the correspondence is almost exact. (1)

Swedenborg went on to say that spirits in the lower spheres live as if they do not realize there is anything beyond their own misty dwelling places, and as if they are incapable of being impressed with good and true.

On September 25, 1853, one of the circle sitters, a Mr. Warren, asked Bacon what impelled spirits in the lower and darker spheres to choose to go there and remain indefinitely. “The reason is obvious,” Bacon replied. The great law of like attracting like obtains throughout the whole of the spheres. When a departed spirit enters into the spheres, he is at once attracted where he finds congeniality of place and persons. They could not be happy in the bright spheres. They could find no enjoyment where there is either virtue or goodness. Thus their first efforts are to locate themselves where the acquired attributes of mind in all its workings may be gratified. Their bodies are gross and their minds still grosser. (2)

Bacon added that there is in this condition of both body and mind a state which rejects magnetically all above and they are compelled to take a place appropriate for their moral advancement or lack thereof. He said that the law of affinity is manifest as much in the higher spheres as in the lower, and that no spirit can become bad all at once or good instantly, adding that the law of progression and retrogression is in full force in all spheres.

Within two or three years of the communications coming through Dr. Dexter, Professor Robert Hare received similar messages. As he came to understand the afterlife environment, there are many graduations between the lowest degree of vice, ignorance, and folly and the highest degrees of virtue, learning, and wisdom. When we cross over to the other side after physical death, we take our place based on what Hare called a “moral specific gravity, “ as discussed in Chapter V.....

As soon as he was convinced that the phenomena were credible reports from spirits of the dead, Hare began asking about their abodes, their modes of existence, their theological doctrines, and diversities of their situations. He was told that there are seven spheres, the terrestrial sphere occupied by humans being first, while the second sphere is where depraved spirits find themselves until they can begin the process of purification that allows them to ascend to higher spheres. When spirits reach the seventh sphere, they are entitled to enter the supernal heaven. He was also informed that there are no visible boundaries between spheres, but spirits have a peculiar sense which makes them understand when they are passing from one sphere to another.

“The most favorable idea of heaven given in Scripture seems to be that which identifies it with Paradise,” Hare, wrote. “In other words, a most beautiful garden. But who would conceive an eternal residence in one garden, however superlative its attractions, as desirable? The idea of the spheres assumes a succession of gardens, with every pleasure, every joy of which the human heart and intellect are capable; and beyond those gardens the whole universe is open to us, and an ultimate ministration as angels under our Heavenly Father.” (4)

Hare’s disincarnate father further explained that the spirit goes to a sphere for which it is morally and intellectually adapted; thus, the first sphere above the terrestrial one, i.e., the second sphere, is the abode of “degraded” spirits, meaning not only evil spirits but “misdirected” ones as well. He pointed out that there are millions of such spirits in the second sphere, what religions call Hell, Hades, or Purgatory, who are groping and unable to free themselves from the fetters of earthly conditions. This sphere is said to be the sphere of as many spirits as all the five spheres above it. Nevertheless, contrary to the teachings of many religions, the spirits on this sphere are not permanently confined there as “onward and upward” is the motto of the spirit world. Sooner or later, spirits from higher levels are able to reach them and help them see the light.

Because of the barriers spirits much overcome in communicating with the material world, the senior Hare warned his son to discern the messages and not take everything literally: As there are no words in the human language in which spiritual ideas may be embodied, so as to convey their literal and exact signification, we are obliged ofttimes to have recourse to the use of analogisms and metaphorical modes of expression. In our communion with you we have to comply with the peculiar structure and rules of your language; but the genius of our language is such that we can impart more ideas to each other in a single word than you can possibly convey in a hundred.” (5)......

Each sphere, the senior Hare said, is divided into six circles, or societies in which congenial spirits are united and subsist together according to the law of affinity. While these spirits generally agree immoral and intellectual matters, there are individual differences and some disagreements. Spirits united by ties of consanguinity and marriage may or may not be linked together in the spheres and in the same society. It depends on the affinity between them, including the level of advancement. However, a spirit in a higher sphere can pass to a lower one to visit with loved once. But a spirit can never ascend to the higher spheres until fully prepared for such a transition.”

(Michael Tymn, The Afterlife Revealed, pp. 6-11)

(Continued on next post)

Go outside when it is good and dark and not cloudy. Look up. You see Mansions, many of them.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So much of what you posted I can relate to, some I think was misinterpreted or maybe I missed something in my own spiritual experiences.
One thing I have heard and it makes sense, is that NDEs are not a full representation of what the spiritual world will be like because those who experienced them were not FULL Y DEAD. There is a wall (figuratively speaking) that separates the spiritual world from the material world, beyond which there is no coming back. Those who have had NDEs have described this.

The other thing is that although spiritual experiences have a lot in common, they are also different, since humans are all different, so what you experienced might be different from what others will experience. That is only logical.
But the one thing I will comment on for now is all this breaking "Heaven" down into "mansions", "Heavens", "spheres", etc. I always have a problem with that. Now I suppose most people like to break everything down into little easy to comprehend tidbits, but I find that just gets in the way of understanding the BIG picture. But in trying to understand WHY they do this, my theory is that people have been conditioned to use only their carnal mind, so have no idea how to access, let alone use their soul that can greatly transcend one's understanding upon spiritual matters.
Maybe that explains why the spirits who communicate back to this world describe the spiritual world as spheres or different levels, so we can understand it better. The book also points out that those who are in a given sphere are really not aware of a boundary, a clear line of demarcation between one sphere and the next, only they realize there is and above and a below which is of course not a matter of geography but rather a spiritual state of the soul.
Now here's how I can best explain this so I hope some will be able to understand.

The True God is the vast and all powerful soul/spiritual energy Deity who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. God is the living universe, and so the universe is the living God.

Now one of the rare few half-truths in the bible is that "we" are created in God's image. But again, since most people are conditioned to thinking ONLY in PHYSICAL terms, they think that means that "God" looks like people. But the True God is SPIRITUAL in nature, so that belief can only really mean that it's our spiritual SOULS that are diminutive versions of God's vast and powerful soul/himself.

So if we use our soul as a model, we can better understand God. And so here we go, into where I'll probably lose everyone. One of the first things I learned about my soul, other than it's being nothing but invisible spiritual energy, was that my thinking was no longer orientated as coming from my head area as I no longer had a "head". And it was instead concentrated as coming from the CENTER of my existence. With it diminishing as my soul extended outward.

So if you can follow me so far, this explains all this "mansions", "Heavens", "spheres", etc". As it's basically the SPIRITUAL realm of God/himself. And so going back to my statement that:

"The True God is the vast and all powerful soul/spiritual energy Deity who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. God is the living universe, and so the universe is the living God."

It's the same principle as what I discovered about my soul. Although I must add here that not only is God's core thinking in his "center", his energy therefore gets more refined as one travels towards the center. And this is where I believe people break it down into bite sized "levels". But I always have just viewed it as all of God, without any "boundaries".
I agree with most of what you said about God and the universe; God creates, maintains, and controls the universe, only I do not believe that God IS the universe. I believe that God is separate from the universe and His Creation, although God is omnipresent and fully aware of our every thought and feeling, closer to us than our life vein. That might seem like an oxymoron, but it would take some explaining; maybe later as it is getting late here. Certainly nobody knows much about God or the soul, both are mysteries. Since you experienced the soul without the body, you are privy to information the rest of us do not have. It is not really something that can be described in words, I am sure.

I believe it takes on a form after we die, but it is not a physical form, it is a form made up of spiritual elements that exist in the spiritual realm. That has been described in various ways by those beyond the veil.

In case you are interested, here is another book about the afterlife that can be read online: Private Dowding. It affirms that there are different levels of spiritual development, and the spirit who communicated describes the body he found himself occupying.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
It makes sense to me, but then again we all think differently. :)

It made sense to me too. I think you and I think alike. I don't know about the sphere's though. My thinking comes from combining Tibetan Buddhism's ideas from the Book of the Dead and the Bibles ideas of judgment by God after death. I think we are our worst critics and we create ALL our own torments in the afterlife. If you are able to balance the scales of the positive and negative parts of your spirit you melt into the one true God and experience eternal heavenly bliss. I imagine when we achieve this final state of bliss we would be too busy experiencing bliss to experience any type of suffering which would give rise to having individual thoughts. If you think about it what possible desires would you have if you were experiencing eternal heavenly bliss? You would not have any desires to be with a loved one because you would essentially BE infinitely connected to everything your loved one would be. You would not experience separation from love ones because this is what eternally heavenly bliss means. When you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you do not experience any form of separation.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Thanks so much for sharing your spiritual experience. I was hoping this would elicit such sharing. Admittedly, I never had a spiritual experience of my own, but I have read a lot about them so I think i understand a lot, although not on an experiential level.

All the NDEs and the spirit communications seem to have certain things in common which to me indicates that they are real and not fabricated. Also, my religion teaches essentially the same things about the soul and the afterlife that come through in these experiences, although it does not go into any detail, so real life experiences are further confirmation. But the gist from my religion is that the spiritual world is much broader and there are many worlds of God, and there is no way to actually describe the joy and gladness we will experience when we cross over because there are no words adequate to describe a spiritual world that is so different from this world. Being the curious sort, I guess that is why I go poking around for more information.

One might wonder why someone like me who has not actually had an NDE or a spiritual experience would be so interested in the afterlife, as all people in my religion do not share my zeal. Most of them are too busy living THIS LIFE, but I find this life really shallow and empty, quite boring, except for spiritual things I can read about and discuss... The material world can just disappear for all I care. I love animals and nature and some people, that is about it. You can have the rest.

One big question I have about the afterlife is what happens to nonbelievers as not much is written in scriptures. I do not believe in the heaven and hell dichotomy Christians believe in so that is off the table. So what happens to people who did not believe in God or people who hated the god they did not believe in? I can make some guesses by reading between the lines of scripture but those are just guesses. One reason I am so concerned is because many/most of my friends are atheists although now some of them have come around after talking to me for years and they say that God probably exists, but we cannot know anything about God, as I say we can.

Anyway, now I am rambling... I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your story.... Real life experiences tend to bring to life what I already know, and I am very visual so the descriptions help a lot. :)

I hope to discuss this with you more later, as time allows.

And I hope what I tried to explain made some kind of sense to you. I find it extremely hard trying to articulate my spiritual experiences/understandings so that people can understand them. Everything is soooooooooooooo very different and outside of their experiences that it's hard to express SOMETHING they can relate to. So if I fail, feel free to ask questions.

I have a little time to try answering your what happens to "nonbelievers" question. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "nonbelievers". But it really doesn't matter if you mean CHRISTIANITY "nonbelievers" or "nonbelievers" like atheists since you mentioned them in the same paragraph. Although it really doesn't matter if they are either type of "nonbelievers", Christians, Muslims, Hindu, Mormon, etc, etc, etc... They ALL have to spiritually evolve enough to pass God's judgment before they can get to enter the spiritual realm or what most call "Heaven". No matter how many life cycles it takes.

The only exceptions are those poor souls who have spent eons being "recycled" in the physical worlds and have shown little or no spiritual progress. There was some mention of this in your opening posts of this thread. Where it's determined that that there is just no way they will ever make it on their own and need some spiritual guides to spend vast amounts of effort trying to help them out. And even though they can only stay at the edge/outer boundaries of God, the energy is still too "pure" for them and they even need help just to cope dealing with that.

But other than those exceptions, the overall criteria for passing God's judgment it to be spiritually evolved enough to play some part in helping out in God's plan for ALL souls. Mostly it's about helping out all the souls still on the physical worlds so that they can evolve enough to pass judgment and enter "Heaven" also. (This is where I have some doubt on what some of the people actually saw/experienced in the writings you copied. That just doesn't match up with anything I ever experienced. But I don't have time to go into it now.)

One last note for now though, as for your comment of:

"I find this life really shallow and empty, quite boring, except for spiritual things I can read about and discuss... The material world can just disappear for all I care. I love animals and nature and some people, that is about it. You can have the rest."

Do you happen to have the other half of this amulet?
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what you said about God and the universe; God creates, maintains, and controls the universe, only I do not believe that God IS the universe. I believe that God is separate from the universe and His Creation, although God is omnipresent and fully aware of our every thought and feeling, closer to us than our life vein.

Being omnipotent means not having any limits. So God is not limited to one way of being. God could certainly be both pantheistic and an Abramaic type observing God at the same time. I think the Universe exists so God can realize His omnipotence. I think the mind of God is recursive in nature and our Big Bang is the result of a star collapsing to a black hole in a previously existing space-time dimension. When you take into account the total number of stars capable of collapsing to a black hole it gives you a new perspective on comprehending the vastness of the God's mind through countless dimensions of reality. Why would we ever think our space-time Universe is the only one or will ever be the only one. Even if the Universe succumbs to heat death it would still be possible to make another throw of the dice in and infinite number of possibilities.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
But other than those exceptions, the overall criteria for passing God's judgment it to be spiritually evolved enough to play some part in helping out in God's plan for ALL souls. Mostly it's about helping out all the souls still on the physical worlds so that they can evolve enough to pass judgment and enter "Heaven" also. (This is where I have some doubt on what some of the people actually saw/experienced in the writings you copied. That just doesn't match up with anything I ever experienced. But I don't have time to go into it now.)

I think God's goal with our existence is to realize unimaginable possibilities. What does this mean. I think God is realizing His omnipotence by experiencing what it means to have a thought so complex that even He doesn't have the ability to understand it until it is realized. But over an infinite amount of time God will eventually realized every possible possibility in reality, and by doing so, complete the experience of His own omnipotence.

So I'm not sure there's a plan in a humanly understandable sense. I think the plan is to NOT have a plan.

I think everyone passes God's judgment and there is no recycling. Essentially everyone is absorbed back into the mind of God.

Please take some time to share whatever it is that you've experienced that you do not have the time to go into right now.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
One thing I have heard and it makes sense, is that NDEs are not a full representation of what the spiritual world will be like because those who experienced them were not FULL Y DEAD. There is a wall (figuratively speaking) that separates the spiritual world from the material world, beyond which there is no coming back. Those who have had NDEs have described this.

The other thing is that although spiritual experiences have a lot in common, they are also different, since humans are all different, so what you experienced might be different from what others will experience. That is only logical.

Maybe that explains why the spirits who communicate back to this world describe the spiritual world as spheres or different levels, so we can understand it better. The book also points out that those who are in a given sphere are really not aware of a boundary, a clear line of demarcation between one sphere and the next, only they realize there is and above and a below which is of course not a matter of geography but rather a spiritual state of the soul.

I agree with most of what you said about God and the universe; God creates, maintains, and controls the universe, only I do not believe that God IS the universe. I believe that God is separate from the universe and His Creation, although God is omnipresent and fully aware of our every thought and feeling, closer to us than our life vein. That might seem like an oxymoron, but it would take some explaining; maybe later as it is getting late here. Certainly nobody knows much about God or the soul, both are mysteries. Since you experienced the soul without the body, you are privy to information the rest of us do not have. It is not really something that can be described in words, I am sure.

I believe it takes on a form after we die, but it is not a physical form, it is a form made up of spiritual elements that exist in the spiritual realm. That has been described in various ways by those beyond the veil.

In case you are interested, here is another book about the afterlife that can be read online: Private Dowding. It affirms that there are different levels of spiritual development, and the spirit who communicated describes the body he found himself occupying.

It's almost 1:00 AM here so I don't want to spend too much time writing out a lot of detail, but do want to give a quick reply.

Yes, there may be similarities as well as differences in NDEs as well as in all spiritual experiences. There are many reasons for that. But to me I see the biggest pitfall is where people add in their previous religious beliefs into the actual experience, or in the interpretation of it. Like a Christian will tell of "Jesus" walking towards him, when it could have been his spiritual guide that he didn't even know he had. Or those that see a "bright light", instead of accepting it for just that, add in that it was "God" or "Jesus".

For myself, my first experience with "death" and my soul's visit to the spiritual realm happened long, long, before I even had an inkling of much of anything, let alone the concepts of "soul", "God", "judgment", "reincarnation", that there even was a whole universe, let alone know how god made it, etc, etc, etc... So it was all experienced with a clean slate and so could not possibly add any preconceived religious beliefs into the experience. And although at one time as I got older, I did try reading various religious and spiritual writings, I quickly decided not to do that so I fall into the very trap I believe others fall into by adding things into the spiritual experiences or mis-interpreting them.

Yikes! It's now 1:20 AM!

Ok, hurry!

Thanks for adding that, yes, as my soul travels around in the spiritual realm/"Heaven" I have never detected any noticeable barriers or boundaries. The energy just gets more powerful and "purer" as I move towards the center. And can only get about 2/3 of the way "in" before it gets hard to deal with. That's why I'm so perplexed why they make all these "levels" "spheres" "Heavens" boundaries. I've tried very hard to detect ANYTHING, but I cannot.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It made sense to me too. I think you and I think alike. I don't know about the sphere's though. My thinking comes from combining Tibetan Buddhism's ideas from the Book of the Dead and the Bibles ideas of judgment by God after death. I think we are our worst critics and we create ALL our own torments in the afterlife. If you are able to balance the scales of the positive and negative parts of your spirit you melt into the one true God and experience eternal heavenly bliss. I imagine when we achieve this final state of bliss we would be too busy experiencing bliss to experience any type of suffering which would give rise to having individual thoughts. If you think about it what possible desires would you have if you were experiencing eternal heavenly bliss? You would not have any desires to be with a loved one because you would essentially BE infinitely connected to everything your loved one would be. You would not experience separation from love ones because this is what eternally heavenly bliss means. When you are in a state of eternal heavenly bliss you do not experience any form of separation.
I think the spheres is just a way to describe to us different levels of spiritual development in terminology that we can understand; they are not actual places. I do not believe that everyone will experience bliss because it would not be in accord with God's Justice that those who struggled and suffered and sacrificed for God and others in this world would be on the same plane of existence as selfish people who did nothing worthwhile with their lives. That does not mean those people cannot progress, progress is always possible if sought. The thing is that some people will not seek God, even after they die; if they were repelled by the idea of God in this world why would they suddenly change their minds? All the accounts of the afterlife that come through spirit communicators indicate that people gravitate right towards the spiritual level they were on when they departed from this life.

How we will experience God after we die is a mystery. Baha'u'llah wrote that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attains the presence of God. The soul that was faithful to God will reflect His light, and will eventually return to God. However, if the soul fails in its allegiance to God, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will sink in their depths.

Souls who were detached from this world and lived in accordance with the Will of God will enter the all-highest Paradise, or heaven as it is often called. It is possible they may enter it immediately upon death.

“Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station….”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 156
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It's almost 1:00 AM here so I don't want to spend too much time writing out a lot of detail, but do want to give a quick reply.

Yikes! It's now 1:20 AM!

Ok, hurry!
You must be back east. I am on the west coast and it is now 10:47 pm here, early for me since I do not have to go to work tomorrow, thank God. I would NEVER post a new thread like this if I knew I had to go to work the next day! :eek:

I will try to respond to your posts tonight, but if not, I will still be here tomorrow I am sure. :)
 
Top