Man Who Was Shot Six Times Still Waiting for Surgery Due to the Overwhelming Number of COVID Cases

[Shadow Wolf]

hopefully. Dont put all your hopes in stats.

It's an ongoing trend since vaccines started rolling out. Doesn't matter where, as people are getting vaccinated the hospitalizations and death reached lows not seen since this started to flair up.
Except for places with low vaccination rates that aren't taking this seriously, like Florida, where they are seeing record new case numbers and hospitals were flooded and swarmed and overrun with covid.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

All one has to do is look at places like the CDC. Some places have over 60%. Some have less than 40%.
But as a nation it's not where we need it at to get us through to the end.

I'm thinking the world population, actually. Too much math. I don't believe the end would be any time soon even if every person in the world is vaccinated. If there weren't other variants than I can see it to an extent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just on this thread. But yeah, many threads are created just to belittle unvaccinated people... even calling them antivax is an insult. @Debater Slayer I don't know about other threads but I didn't get lack of empathy impression from you. Thinking of #30 "I don't think that would be humane or set a desirable precedent at all." Not all can see it this way.

Antivaxxers are having a net damage on society. From allowing things like measles to come back amd needlessly continueing this pandemic (those nurses really need a break from this), their beliefs have caused a lot of needless suffering, death, and destruction.
Why should we feel empathy for them? Their beliefs are detrimental for society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Too much math.

It's basic arithmetic and only involves a few numbers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Very true.

IF they tell me the truth THEN I am very easy going
IF they try to manipulate me and numbers THEN I stay away from them

BUT IF I feel I need to do something THEN I do it anyway. I trust my conscience and my Guardian Angel
AND I am okay with the consequences it might have

I trust my conscience too. Don't have a guardian angel but have been intercepted and protected by loved ones.

Have you not been vaccinated? In Holland 22 million vaccinations have been given (with population of 17 million people). 121 vaccinations per minute I just read. In Holland 85% wants to get vaccinated, and they expect September 1st to have vaccinated all (who want it)

No. I've never vaccinated before outside grade school requirements. We have three vaccination spots walking distance from me. But I don't know about the numbers. I don't go many places to consider it though. I'm not afraid of being asymptomatic unless I intentionally put myself in situations that would increase my risk of catching COVID. I can't think of a reason to consider it outside listening to stats and doctors who don't know me personally. For me, it would probably need to be something more close to home-like if I had a loved one with COVID or working at a hospital, something of that nature. Not just because.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just on this thread. But yeah, many threads are created just to belittle unvaccinated people... even calling them antivax is an insult. @Debater Slayer I don't know about other threads but I didn't get lack of empathy impression from you. Thinking of #30 "I don't think that would be humane or set a desirable precedent at all." Not all can see it this way.

But what about some empathy for the whole society that is going to be condemned to a long painful period of illness and death, in large part because some people simply do not want to be vaccinated. I would have some empathy for those people if they also said, at the same time "and because I refuse to be vaccinated, I will keep myself well away from other people and always wear an N95 mask whenever I am in indoor public places or crowded outdoor spaces."

But they don't want to do that either. They are, as I said earlier, quite content to let their communities suffer over the longer haul.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's basic arithmetic and only involves a few numbers.

Not really. There's too many factors involved than basic addition, subtraction, and division. Numbers change daily.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Antivaxxers are having a net damage on society. From allowing things like measles to come back amd needlessly continueing this pandemic (those nurses really need a break from this), their beliefs have caused a lot of needless suffering, death, and destruction.
Why should we feel empathy for them? Their beliefs are detrimental for society.

Let me ask, who exactly are the antivaxxers?

There are so many people who don't vaccinate who have nothing to do with this.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I wish/doubt it didn't happen that way just media focuses on guilt-tripping to get people vaccinated. Making a situation grandiose.

I Think grandiose is a malapropism in that context.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I see a lot of assumptions being made here. There is no data here showing how many of the Covid cases had been vaccinated or unvaccinated. Some number will be breakthrough cases. Then there is the assumption that any unvaccinated were simply being being obdurate. This story is taking place where there are thousands of unvaccinated illegal immigrants arriving and overwhelmingly the hospitals. But instead of seeing that elephant in the room some people want to point fingers elsewhere.

Hospitalizations Spike In States With Low Vaccination Rates As Unvaccinated Covid Patients Fill ICUs

hopefully. Dont put all your hopes in stats.

In this case they appear to be an actual reflection of reality.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Once we get every person in the world vaccinated, there would still be breakthroughs and hospital surges cause of the new variants. It's a short-term solution (well, hopeful solution) to a long term problem.

Just as we have flu variants every year, and a new vaccination every year to combat them. And some people die from flu -- every year. But not in their hundreds of thousands, as has happened in the United States due to Covid. If enough people would simply get vaccinated, this, too, could be turned into a flu-like thing -- maybe even combine the vaccinations into one, like they do with MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella).

But your attitude seems to be "we can't beat it, so let's do nothing." That will definitely kill a lot more people. I wish you would take that into consideration.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not really. There's too many factors involved than basic addition, subtraction, and division. Numbers change daily.

It's still population vaccinated/total population=percentage of population vaccinated.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Let me ask, who exactly are the antivaxxers?

There are so many people who don't vaccinate who have nothing to do with this.

The anti vaxxers are people who go on forums and social media and promote the cause against vaccinations. And argue against their effectiveness and safety with out confirmed evidence. Or raise unfounded Doubs and fears in others minds.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is that not what this thread is really about?

I don't think so. Triage isn't about prioritizing life, it's about trying to make sure what care that is available is concentrated where it has the best likelihood of being useful. A person who has been shot, and has been stabilized, can go quite a long time without much other treatment, except perhaps analgesics and antibiotics. That is, they can wait a bit. Other people, struggling to get oxygen into their lungs, may not have that much time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

hopefully. Dont put all your hopes in stats.

Stats and numbers are the only reliable things to place faith in, as it is our only way to objectively analyze a situation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just don't take vaccination for granted. They're calling for booster shots (in Israel I believe started it or India) and they say the effects say be temp say wear off in 6 months or so.

I've had to get booster shots for a few things, and I get the flu jab yearly.
Your point?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This is for any illness, though. If someone dies of cancer because of smoking (and you knew this person well), would you not visit them at the hospital?

Or just COVID even. You tell someone you care about you won't visit them because of their health-related decisions?

I mean not everyone has empathy for strangers (or just strangers they 'choose' to have empathy for) but genuine empathy goes beyond that.

I have empathy for any person who suffers -- even if they are the cause of their own suffering.

That is why I fight so hard on this forum (and in my own life) to convince people to just get vaccinated. I've read the stats. I know how much difference the vaccine can make -- and it is actually huge. Read the following:

The Delta variant really started to hit the UK in early May. The daily case count had bottomed out at 1,355 on May 1 but began to climb after that. The case count peaked at 60,680 on July 15, but compared to previous waves there was not a corresponding rise in hospitalizations or deaths due to COVID-19.

The first wave in the UK saw a high of about 5,400 cases per day in late April 2020 with hospitalizations spiking at 21,687 on April 12, 2020 and deaths at a high of 1,075 on April 8, 2020. In the second wave, cases spiked at 81,499 on Dec. 29, 2020 while hospitalizations peaked at 39,254 on Jan. 18, 2021 and deaths peaked at 1,359 per day on Jan. 19, 2021.

Healthcare personnel work in a coronavirus intensive care unit where they are dealing with a surge in cases of the Delta variant at Intermountain Medical Center in Murray, Utah, in this handout photo provided July 23, 2021.

By comparison, as vaccinations took hold, the third wave in the UK looked far different.

Cases spiked up to 60,680 on July 15, 2021, or 74% of the previous high, but hospitalizations only reached a third wave high of 6,082 or just 15% of the previous high for hospitalizations. For deaths, the peak in the British third wave was 99 deaths on July 30, or just 7% of the previous high.

What this tells us is that vaccinations against COVID-19 work, even against the Delta variant.

When Delta really started hitting the United Kingdom in early May there were just 65% of those 18 and over with a first dose and 29% with a second dose. By comparison, as Ontario is looking at Delta taking hold we have 82% of the population 18 and over having one shot and 74% having two shots.

Ontario is well ahead of where the UK was in terms of being prepared for the wave brought about by Delta. This should be cause for celebration and something that helps us look forward to getting back to normal rather than something that makes us recoil in fear.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I Think grandiose is a malapropism in that context.

You think so? Dramatism, maybe.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hospitalizations Spike In States With Low Vaccination Rates As Unvaccinated Covid Patients Fill ICUs

In this case they appear to be an actual reflection of reality.

How much stock do you put in what they tell you?
(Not as a conspiracy just in general-how much do you put in the fact they give you?)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just as we have flu variants every year, and a new vaccination every year to combat them. And some people die from flu -- every year. But not in their hundreds of thousands, as has happened in the United States due to Covid. If enough people would simply get vaccinated, this, too, could be turned into a flu-like thing -- maybe even combine the vaccinations into one, like they do with MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella).

But your attitude seems to be "we can't beat it, so let's do nothing." That will definitely kill a lot more people. I wish you would take that into consideration.

I keep seeing this (what I'm saying next) pop up but I've never heard a good answer just repeated ones.

If a person is isolated from the public how could he or she help with herd immunity by vaccination?

My attitude is "it will take long to beat it, don't take current solutions and info for granted."