Making feminism more palatable

[MoonWater]

As we have seen in these forums and elsewhere it is very common to come across people who will say "oh, I'm all for equal rights for women... but I'm not a feminist". Essentially feminism has become a bad word to a lot of people because of all the negative associations that go along with it and people will stand against feminism while at the same time being in support of a lot of the same basic rights and ideals that we strive for. As such, at Riverwolf's suggestion, I have opened up this thread for us to discuss potential strategies to help with this in terms of how we can converse and act to help better represent ourselves and convince those types of people that we really are on the same side.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

What makes one a feminist?

 

[Alceste]

As we have seen in these forums and elsewhere it is very common to come across people who will say "oh, I'm all for equal rights for women... but I'm not a feminist". Essentially feminism has become a bad word to a lot of people because of all the negative associations that go along with it and people will stand against feminism while at the same time being in support of a lot of the same basic rights and ideals that we strive for. As such, at Riverwolf's suggestion, I have opened up this thread for us to discuss potential strategies to help with this in terms of how we can converse and act to help better represent ourselves and convince those types of people that we really are on the same side.

I think education is important. The criticism usually seems to come from ignorance and thoughtless stereotypes. If we can get across that feminism isn't about being anti-male, and that patriarchy isn't something we "blame" men for, most people will respond.

As to the inane, constant noise from detractors about sandwiches, sex and abortion in every feminist discussion, we can just ignore it. I think we can communicate what feminism is about just fine with anybody who is actually interested, and put to rest most lingering stereotypes very easily.

I don't think negative perception from a minority is anything to worry about, personally. Any thinker, group or activist that criticizes the status quo is gonna get some flak from people who like things just the way they are. That's the nature of the beast. There's nothing we can do about it except stop criticizing the status quo, at which point we are no longer feminists.

 

[Alceste]

What makes one a feminist?

If you don't already know, then you aren't one. I can recommend some reading material if you'd like to learn. Nothing taxing. Wikipedia and the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy are a good place to start.

 

[Quintessence]

Ah, I have a fair number of insights on this issue because it's something that contemporary Pagans have to deal with constantly. The words we use to self-identify within the movement historically have some very negative connotations. If you call yourself a Pagan or a Witch in open conversation, most people are going to have relatively negative reactions. It's why there are significant numbers of contemporary Pagans who are not open about their religious affiliation. They don't want to deal with the negative flak.

Before I get into potential strategies, I'd like to bring up one point. Words have multiple definitions, and just because you don't like a particular definition doesn't mean that it isn't a valid usage of the word. Whether I like it or not, the words "pagan," "witch," and "feminist" are pejoratives in certain contexts. I can either get all angry about this and throw a fit, or I can accept that in my culture, one of the many definitions of these terms is not flattering.

I can also accept and recognize that these unflattering definitions do not describe me. When someone uses one of these terms in their pejorative, snarl-word sense, I can say "this isn't what I mean when I use this term." Turn it into a teaching moment. The last thing I should do is say "you're wrong, this word means this," because that is instantly going to set them on the defensive and start closing off lines of communication and understanding. Furthermore, they're not wrong; as mentioned, words have multiple definitions and what understandings dominate is often cultural. Instead of trying to force people to accept your "correct" definition, show them the range of meanings that word conveys and help them understand those cultural differences.

Feminism has more going for it with this approach than Paganism and Witchcraft because feminism was initially a positive term to begin with. Teaching the history of the movement - what it did for women in America - will help people put the term in context. This is especially important for young men and women who don't really have a clue what things were like before the success of feminism. They take for granted the current status of women in our society, and they don't understand how things used to be. They don't understand that women were second-class citizens and denied many basic rights simply because they didn't have a penis. Want to vote? Tough buckets. Want to be a doctor or a lawyer? Too bad, that's a man's job. Want to live on your own and be independent? Load of nonsense - every woman needs a husband to keep her straight and proper. These post-feminist generations largely don't understand how awful it was.

Beyond all that, it is always a good idea to inspire change by example. Be a positive representative of what you stand for. Prove to others that you're not some baby-eating monster by being a good friend, a good co-worker, or whatever. When it comes out later that you're a [insert pejorative term here], they'll start to reconsider. They'll think "well, so and so calls themselves a Witch and a feminist, and they're really cool, so maybe they're not all that bad." At some point, we're going to run into people tgat have their minds made up. They're not interested in understanding other viewpoints, for whatever reason. It's not worth it to try and engage these people. Pick the battles wisely, and don't bother with the ones you cannot win. Respect the other person even if you disagree with their viewpoint. I still remember the Evangelical Christian I met once who knew I was a Witch and said "I think you're going to hell and I disagree with you, but I still respect you as a human being." It was some kind of awesome. Be that kind of awesome.

 

[Alceste]

Ah, I have a fair number of insights on this issue because it's something that contemporary Pagans have to deal with constantly. The words we use to self-identify within the movement historically have some very negative connotations. If you call yourself a Pagan or a Witch in open conversation, most people are going to have relatively negative reactions. It's why there are significant numbers of contemporary Pagans who are not open about their religious affiliation. They don't want to deal with the negative flak.

Before I get into potential strategies, I'd like to bring up one point. Words have multiple definitions, and just because you don't like a particular definition doesn't mean that it isn't a valid usage of the word. Whether I like it or not, the words "pagan," "witch," and "feminist" are pejoratives in certain contexts. I can either get all angry about this and throw a fit, or I can accept that in my culture, one of the many definitions of these terms is not flattering.

I can also accept and recognize that these unflattering definitions do not describe me. When someone uses one of these terms in their pejorative, snarl-word sense, I can say "this isn't what I mean when I use this term." Turn it into a teaching moment. The last thing I should do is say "you're wrong, this word means this," because that is instantly going to set them on the defensive and start closing off lines of communication and understanding. Furthermore, they're not wrong; as mentioned, words have multiple definitions and what understandings dominate is often cultural. Instead of trying to force people to accept your "correct" definition, show them the range of meanings that word conveys and help them understand those cultural differences.

Feminism has more going for it with this approach than Paganism and Witchcraft because feminism was initially a positive term to begin with. Teaching the history of the movement - what it did for women in America - will help people put the term in context. This is especially important for young men and women who don't really have a clue what things were like before the success of feminism. They take for granted the current status of women in our society, and they don't understand how things used to be. They don't understand that women were second-class citizens and denied many basic rights simply because they didn't have a penis. Want to vote? Tough buckets. Want to be a doctor or a lawyer? Too bad, that's a man's job. Want to live on your own and be independent? Load of nonsense - every woman needs a husband to keep her straight and proper. These post-feminist generations largely don't understand how awful it was.

Beyond all that, it is always a good idea to inspire change by example. Be a positive representative of what you stand for. Prove to others that you're not some baby-eating monster by being a good friend, a good co-worker, or whatever. When it comes out later that you're a [insert pejorative term here], they'll start to reconsider. They'll think "well, so and so calls themselves a Witch and a feminist, and they're really cool, so maybe they're not all that bad." At some point, we're going to run into people tgat have their minds made up. They're not interested in understanding other viewpoints, for whatever reason. It's not worth it to try and engage these people. Pick the battles wisely, and don't bother with the ones you cannot win. Respect the other person even if you disagree with their viewpoint. I still remember the Evangelical Christian I met once who knew I was a Witch and said "I think you're going to hell and I disagree with you, but I still respect you as a human being." It was some kind of awesome. Be that kind of awesome.

That's a good approach. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

As of now this forum is designated Exclusive/Purple. This means only those members who identify as feminists are allowed to post in this DIR.​

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

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[MysticSang'ha]

As we have seen in these forums and elsewhere it is very common to come across people who will say "oh, I'm all for equal rights for women... but I'm not a feminist". Essentially feminism has become a bad word to a lot of people because of all the negative associations that go along with it and people will stand against feminism while at the same time being in support of a lot of the same basic rights and ideals that we strive for. As such, at Riverwolf's suggestion, I have opened up this thread for us to discuss potential strategies to help with this in terms of how we can converse and act to help better represent ourselves and convince those types of people that we really are on the same side.

Has there ever been a time in the history of feminism when the word didn't evoke such a strong negative response from people who are either ignorant of the movement or would rather stick with the status quo?

100 years ago or so, it was a fight to get women the right to vote. There were plenty of people who had disdain for feminists back then, thought they were man-haters, thought they wanted "special" rights, and believed women have equal rights already.

50 years ago or so, it was a fight to get women into the workplace, into political office, to have the birth control pill available, and to remove the stigma of the working mother. There were plenty of people who had disdain for feminists back then, thought they were man-haters, thought they wanted "special" rights, and believed women have equal rights already.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the same old, same old. I'm willing to be thought of negatively if it means my daughter can have equal pay for equal work, have full reproductive rights and access to contraception and plan B wherever she chooses to live, and can see the very real possibility of watching a woman be elected for President (or if SHE would like to run someday).

If I'm branded negatively now, but my efforts help to put an end to rape culture, I'll take it. I think it's more than worth it. That's just me, though. If y'all want to make feminism sound attractive, however, go for it. Doesn't bother me.

 

[Alceste]

Has there ever been a time in the history of feminism when the word didn't evoke such a strong negative response from people who are either ignorant of the movement or would rather stick with the status quo?

100 years ago or so, it was a fight to get women the right to vote. There were plenty of people who had disdain for feminists back then, thought they were man-haters, thought they wanted "special" rights, and believed women have equal rights already.

50 years ago or so, it was a fight to get women into the workplace, into political office, to have the birth control pill available, and to remove the stigma of the working mother. There were plenty of people who had disdain for feminists back then, thought they were man-haters, thought they wanted "special" rights, and believed women have equal rights already.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the same old, same old. I'm willing to be thought of negatively if it means my daughter can have equal pay for equal work, have full reproductive rights and access to contraception and plan B wherever she chooses to live, and can see the very real possibility of watching a woman be elected for President (or if SHE would like to run someday).

If I'm branded negatively now, but my efforts help to put an end to rape culture, I'll take it. I think it's more than worth it. That's just me, though. If y'all want to make feminism sound attractive, however, go for it. Doesn't bother me.

I'm with you. I don't think it's the word feminism that rubs people the wrong way at all. I think it's the idea of equal rights and opportunities for women, as well as economic independence, political power and bodily autonomy.

 

[Horrorble]

As we have seen in these forums and elsewhere it is very common to come across people who will say "oh, I'm all for equal rights for women... but I'm not a feminist". Essentially feminism has become a bad word to a lot of people because of all the negative associations that go along with it and people will stand against feminism while at the same time being in support of a lot of the same basic rights and ideals that we strive for. As such, at Riverwolf's suggestion, I have opened up this thread for us to discuss potential strategies to help with this in terms of how we can converse and act to help better represent ourselves and convince those types of people that we really are on the same side.

This depends on the reason why someone doesn't call themselves a feminist. If its because they are anti feminist then we have problem. If it's for other reasons eg they are a woman of colour and prefer to call themselves a womanist then I don't see the problem.
I don't have a problem with people who have a feminist mind set but don't call themselves feminists.