Lucifer, the “Good Guy” calling out God's bull****.

[crossfire]

Considering nearly everyone has gotten their stories about Lucifer incorrect, in that Lucifer technically presents as feminine (for one), <...>

What else could you expect from the planet Venus (as the morning star and evening star?)
Personally, I see Hecate with her two torches as the morning star and the evening star as being much closer than anything presented in this thread.

 

[Viker]

What else could you expect from the planet Venus (as the morning star and evening star?)
Personally, I see Hecate with her two torches as the morning star and the evening star as being much closer than anything presented in this thread.

 

[urantianX]

Viker: i am interested, let me know privately?

Viker, tell me publicly, tia.

 

[urantianX]

kay, Viker, this is my last post to you: would you at least publicly tell me here about the lucifer organization you are in, a link you may share with me, so i can go to it online¿, tia...

 

[jhwatts]

The title Light Bearer seems to sound as if it is a burden or a hardship. What is the light? To conclude what the light is a few verse of the Bible should be perused.

Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

John 1: (1-4)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 9: (4-6)
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Realize the words life, blood, and light can often be interchanged in the Bible. The light is the blood and was used to make man. Does the Light Bearer live in your heart? Of course He does. His light is in your veins. Was the Light Bearer slated to be destroyed to make man? Was that his burden? It would seem so.

 

[crossfire]

The title Light Bearer seems to sound as if it is a burden or a hardship. What is the light? To conclude what the light is a few verse of the Bible should be perused.

Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

John 1: (1-4)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 9: (4-6)
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Realize the words life, blood, and light can often be interchanged in the Bible. The light is the blood and was used to make man. Does the Light Bearer live in your heart? Of course He does. His light is in your veins. Was the Light Bearer slated to be destroyed to make man? Was that his burden? It would seem so.

Revelation 22:16:

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright Morning Star.”​

 

[Kenny]

Ok - going back to the beginning where I said:

"Reminds me of Satan as he twisted truth and tried to tempt God Himself."

An example is Job 2: 4 Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has, he will give for his life. 5 However, reach out with Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face!” 6 So the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life.”

Do you understand how little theological sense this makes, and how completely it invalidates the gravity of the temptation in the desert? This is a fairly large problem that Christianity has.

So, as I said, you make a statement but with absolutely no support.

This mentality relegates Satan to some moustache-twirling caricature villain, and makes the perceived (and promoted) threat of "the devil" just ridiculous and laughable. It entirely loses every thread that Satan is meant to represent.

Again, a statement with no support or even a logical progression to support the statement.

Just as he cannot be taken seriously as a threat or a danger to one's soul ("Not today, Satan!") it removes the function of Satan as one who tempers the soul. This mentality comes from Christians misunderstanding the difference between satan and Satan. One is an adverb (describes a person) and the other is a Proper Noun (is a person). While someone who is a satan is one who opposes the will of god, Satan is an agent of god that tests the piety of those who are either regarded to be holy or claim to be. This was the purpose of Jesus wandering the desert; to test his piety and his spiritual strength, things that were necessary to undergo the task he was about to do. Had he failed, the sacrifice would have been in vain. Satan was not there to foil Jesus, but to administer that test: the common Christian mentality would be like accusing a teacher of trying to fail a student for issuing them a term final test.

Again. why is he the one who tempers the soul as if the word of God cannot do it? Whether an adverb or a proper noun, the conclusion is the same. Where does it says that the purpose was to test the piety of Jesus?

My position is that Satan always tries to thwart God's destiny. Thus - Cain murders Abel - the elimination of two seeds after God said the woman's seed would crush his head (not temper the peoples soul). He kills all children during Moses' time as well as Jesus time.

Scripturally supported.

 

[crossfire]

Ok - going back to the beginning where I said:

"Reminds me of Satan as he twisted truth and tried to tempt God Himself."

An example is Job 2: 4 Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has, he will give for his life. 5 However, reach out with Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face!” 6 So the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life.”


So, as I said, you make a statement but with absolutely no support.



Again, a statement with no support or even a logical progression to support the statement.



Again. why is he the one who tempers the soul as if the word of God cannot do it? Whether an adverb or a proper noun, the conclusion is the same. Where does it says that the purpose was to test the piety of Jesus?

My position is that Satan always tries to thwart God's destiny. Thus - Cain murders Abel - the elimination of two seeds after God said the woman's seed would crush his head (not temper the peoples soul). He kills all children during Moses' time as well as Jesus time.

Scripturally supported.

Where in the Bible is Lucifer equated with Satan?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Ok - going back to the beginning where I said:

Are you really digging up a two-week old discussion with the same tired non-arguments?

An example is Job 2:4

Convince me that it would be worth my time to go through Job with you.

So, as I said, you make a statement but with absolutely no support.

Plenty of support for my statements has been given, Kenny. Again, the fact that you blatantly ignore it does not make it disappear.

Again. why is he the one who tempers the soul as if the word of God cannot do it?

Why does your god need angels to deliver messages and speak for him?

Whether an adverb or a proper noun, the conclusion is the same.

No, not the same conclusion. But we've been over this.

My position is that Satan always tries to thwart God's destiny.

Cool beans. Your position is basically a theological caricature, not one that honors or even accurately emulates the original figure from which you have lifted him.

 

[Kenny]

Where in the Bible is Lucifer equated with Satan?

That is, in reality, a Latin translation (day-star) to a King of Babylon that has a spiritual counterpart like so many other parts of the Bible. Like the offering of Isaac which is a precursor to the offering of Jesus--an earthly representation of a spiritual truth.

Another example is:

Daniel, when he prayed and an angel said:

"12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Though there was an actual king of Persia, there was a spiritual being that was manipulated earthly an earthly kingdom

 

[Kenny]

Are you really digging up a two-week old discussion with the same tired non-arguments?

Where did you want me to start? (I don't use crystal ball)

Convince me that it would be worth my tilme to go through Job with you.

Jesus, John 1010 - "It is the thief that comes not but to steal, kill and destroy but I have come to give life and live in abundance"

1 John 3:8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

nowhere does it says that Satan was here to test the piety of man.

job 2:4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. (Tempting God. You steal kill and destroy without justice)

6 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. (God saved his life and said "he is in your dominion and you are the one who does it) (John 10:10)

Plenty of support for my statements has been given, Kenny. Again, the fact that you blatantly ignore it does not make it disappear.

I disagreed and still haven't found it.... nor are you supplying it.

Why does your god need angels to deliver messages and speak for him?

Who are you to tell Him He cannot? What support do you have to say that He can't?

No, not the same conclusion. But we've been over this.

Again... no support

Cool beans. Your position is basically a theological caricature, not one that honors or even accurately emulates the original figure from which you have lifted him.

Again... no support

Which was my point from the beginning you are only helping me support my position at this point.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Kenny, you're not bringing anything new. You're still just baselessly asserting that I've provided no support for my statements and repeating "I don't see it, I don't see it". I'm not going to do your work for you. There are only six pages here, why don't you read over them again.

And random bible verses do not convince me that you're now, two weeks later, going to be able to conduct a fruitful debate or discussion on the myth of Job. I could deep analyze that myth and you'd come back with "you've got no support for that, I don't see it". It's a waste of my time.

 

[crossfire]

That is, in reality, a Latin translation (day-star) to a King of Babylon that has a spiritual counterpart like so many other parts of the Bible. Like the offering of Isaac which is a precursor to the offering of Jesus--an earthly representation of a spiritual truth.

Another example is:

Daniel, when he prayed and an angel said:

"12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

Though there was an actual king of Persia, there was a spiritual being that was manipulated earthly an earthly kingdom

So do you wait for Satan the Day-Star to rise in your heart in 2 Peter 1:19?

 

[River Sea]

The Satan of my religion is viewed as a fearsome yet loyal angel of the Supreme God, and inspires genuine malevolence to test human character.

The Supreme God embodies Creation, Destruction, and Divine Order over Primordial Chaos.

@Aštra’el Yeah I'm learning that lately about HaSatan, however I tend to get angry and want to show my anger. How does one express anger, so it can be used, what advice do you have how to deal when feeling angry? I hope this is still on topic what you wrote.

HaSatan is not the same as "Lucifer" (Latin for morning star,light bringer). Morning star is the nick name for the King of Tyre

@IndigoChild5559 I never heard of King of Tyre., can you tell me more about King Tyre?

In Judaism, angels have no free will so they can't rebel. HaSatan is an angel, God's employee

We certainly don't think Satan is any "god of this world." There is only one God

@IndigoChild5559 @Aštra’el

I'm learning to grow through HaSatan and allowing unconditional love teach me through all of this., its not easy growing through HaSatan due to I tend to get angry., can you relate? Then I grow through my anger.

 

[Brian2]

So do you wait for Satan the Day-Star to rise in your heart in 2 Peter 1:19?

This would be referring to the Malachi 4:2, the sun of righteousness. This refers to Jesus.

 

[crossfire]

This would be referring to the Malachi 4:2, the sun of righteousness. This refers to Jesus.

I would agree with you this refers to Jesus. However, the Latin word used in the Latin Vulgate in 2 Peter 1:19 is Lucifer. (As Lucifer is a Latin word)
2 Peter 1:19 HCSB;VULGATE - So we have the prophetic word strongly - Bible Gateway

Comparing the use of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 to Lucifer as Jesus in 2 Peter 1, we can find a similarity: in both instances Lucifer had to die a fleshly death.

 

[Aštra’el]

@Aštra’el Yeah I'm learning that lately about HaSatan, however I tend to get angry and want to show my anger. How does one express anger, so it can be used, what advice do you have how to deal when feeling angry? I hope this is still on topic what you wrote.

Anger can be self destructive… or it can be empowering.

For example. You are angry. You fail to control your anger, you recklessly attack someone, and you end up in prison. Actions have consequences. Years of your life go by over one mistake because you had no discipline over your emotions.

Or…

You are angry. You take that anger with you to the gym. People can not see it in your face or through your body language, but it is there. When you are reaching the end of your sets and your body feels like giving up, you imagine what you are angry about, you focus on it, and you exploit those thoughts and feelings to fuel those last few reps.

Maybe you are running. You are tempted to quit early, turn back, and save the achievement for another day. Then you remember that anger. It overrides what you were thinking before and now you are more inspired than ever to keep on going. And you do.

I used physical training as examples, but you get the idea. Anger can help prevent you from succumbing to weakness, if you allow it. If you control it. It can inspire and empower. It is like fire. Fire can burn you if you are reckless with it, but it has many powerful uses for those who can control it.

@IndigoChild5559 @Aštra’el

I'm learning to grow through HaSatan and allowing unconditional love teach me through all of this., its not easy growing through HaSatan due to I tend to get angry., can you relate? Then I grow through my anger.

I have described forces Above, Below and Within me… as I have experienced them. Other people and cultures may or may not resonate with my views. It does not make them or I right or wrong. It means that people are not afraid to customize their spirituality to reflect who they are and who they will to become, and that people might experience their God(s) through their own eyes in a way that may or may not align with commonly accepted religious lore. Religions evolve from culture to culture, and person to person. I completely approve of it.

Whether it is unconditional love and compassion, or anger and hatred… my advice is to control your emotions as best you can and be mindful of the consequences of your actions. Every emotion can be a strength or a weakness, depending on the situation.

 

[Kenny]

So do you wait for Satan the Day-Star to rise in your heart in 2 Peter 1:19?

He is always an imitator trying to supplant the real thing. 2 Peter doesn't qualify -- more like taking something out of context.

Remember, Lucifer isn't Satan. That was referring to a King with a spiritual counterpart.

 

[Brian2]

I would agree with you this refers to Jesus. However, the Latin word used in the Latin Vulgate in 2 Peter 1:19 is Lucifer. (As Lucifer is a Latin word)
2 Peter 1:19 HCSB;VULGATE - So we have the prophetic word strongly - Bible Gateway

Comparing the use of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 to Lucifer as Jesus in 2 Peter 1, we can find a similarity: in both instances Lucifer had to die a fleshly death.

Interesting mix of wrong interpretations and translations.