Loving God = Eternal Torture?

[Triumphant_Loser]

So, I've been an ex-Christian for about 4 years now, and one thing still irks me even to this day. In evangelical Christianity (in which I was raised...and I suppose most denominations of Christianity in general,) it is believed that God is supposedly love (1 John 4:8), yet at the same time, it is believed that God tortures people for eternity in hell. It would be one thing if it were temporary and corrective, but it isn't... it is eternal. What purpose does an eternal hell serve, exactly? Can someone who is willing to torture his own "children" for eternity be seen as "loving?" That just sort of sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds. Even if God cannot "allow sin into heaven," why not just annihilate the person, both body and soul? Why is torture necessary?

 

[George-ananda]

Why get hung up on the old-fashioned eternal torture myth. Most people have more sophisticated beliefs than that nowadays.

 

[Deidre]

 

[Kolibri]

So, I've been an ex-Christian for about 4 years now, and one thing still irks me even to this day. In evangelical Christianity (in which I was raised...and I suppose most denominations of Christianity in general,) it is believed that God is supposedly love (1 John 4:8), yet at the same time, it is believed that God tortures people for eternity in hell. It would be one thing if it were temporary and corrective, but it isn't... it is eternal. What purpose does an eternal hell serve, exactly? Can someone who is willing to torture his own "children" for eternity be seen as "loving?" That just sort of sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds. Even if God cannot "allow sin into heaven," why not just annihilate the person, both body and soul? Why is torture necessary?

The teaching that God torments people forever is not a Bible teaching.
What you would expect from a God of love, that someone irredeemable is simply annihilated, is.

Jehovah disciplines those that he loves. The discipline is not pleasant, but it is always to the proper degree and for a specific purpose - to help the erring one to reclaim righteousness and peace. (Heb 12:11)

For those he can not love because they will not respond to discipline, he will simply put them in and leave them in a state of nonexistence.
"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; (or "life.", that is, life prospects.) rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." - Mt 10:28

Supplementary Information:

Gehenna. The Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.—Re 20:14; Mt 5:22; 10:28.
- Glossary — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[JRMcC]

So, I've been an ex-Christian for about 4 years now, and one thing still irks me even to this day. In evangelical Christianity (in which I was raised...and I suppose most denominations of Christianity in general,) it is believed that God is supposedly love (1 John 4:8), yet at the same time, it is believed that God tortures people for eternity in hell. It would be one thing if it were temporary and corrective, but it isn't... it is eternal. What purpose does an eternal hell serve, exactly? Can someone who is willing to torture his own "children" for eternity be seen as "loving?" That just sort of sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds. Even if God cannot "allow sin into heaven," why not just annihilate the person, both body and soul? Why is torture necessary?

People say that God is infinite, therefore the punishment for rejecting him is infinite.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Things like eternal torture and if you don't believe .......

It's obvious rhetoric like this has a clear purpose to scare people into and corral our primal fears into a particular direction of one's choosing.

Funny thing though, that it works so wonderfully on so many folks without any basis with reality.

The crux of the fear, strangely enough, comes from ideology alone that has no actual substance or basis on which to go by that would properly ground one's fears. .


Why not therefore use the psychological impact that's effective enough to keep people locked in by threats alone?

People get scared with their own mind without justification and make it real by association.

To answer the op. Its necessary for the employment of torture in scriptures in order to keep people within that religion because torture is actually more real than God.

Nefarious, isn't it?

 

[Skwim]

So, I've been an ex-Christian for about 4 years now, and one thing still irks me even to this day. In evangelical Christianity (in which I was raised...and I suppose most denominations of Christianity in general,) it is believed that God is supposedly love (1 John 4:8), yet at the same time, it is believed that God tortures people for eternity in hell. It would be one thing if it were temporary and corrective, but it isn't... it is eternal. What purpose does an eternal hell serve, exactly? Can someone who is willing to torture his own "children" for eternity be seen as "loving?" That just sort of sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds. Even if God cannot "allow sin into heaven," why not just annihilate the person, both body and soul? Why is torture necessary?

This demonstrates one of the great failings of Christianity, its lack of internal logic. Although of little concern to the believer, it it's one of the huge hurdles to those on the outside looking to establish its worth.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Jesus in some sources was known to have talked about reincarnation and Paul, one of the less trust worthy apostles probably made up the idea of eternal torture as a way to cull people to join Christianity. A loving God wouldn't torture or allow bad people to torture others.

Also evil people fight other evil people all the time even in the real world. Because they only work for themselves, and are selfish and are willing to betray one another. Evil people can't work together and only have minions because they are coerced or manipulated to do so, so the idea of the devil punishing bad people wouldn't be nonsense. The Devil would just torture anyone whether they are good or bad. Since bad people are sent to Hell as opposed to Heaven because if they aren't good enough to enter heaven, where would they go? They are sent to hell according to the bible where they are tortured but maybe God doesn't want them to be tortureds specifically, it might be because he just wants them in that area far away from Heaven and the devil is there and just happens to like torturing others, not because the devil likes to torture bad people but just likes to torture in general whether they are good or bad.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jesus in some sources was known to have talked about ...

Let me help with this:

Jesus in some sources was claimed to have talked about …​

There: much better. Carry on …

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Let me help with this:

Jesus in some sources was claimed to have talked about …​

There: much better. Carry on …

Well it didn't really help but ok. Jesus has talked of reincarnation but really it was Paul who did most of the proselytizing and wanting everyone to be Christian. Even Judaism has spoken of reincarnation at one point as well.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well it didn't really help but ok.

My pleasure.

Jesus has talked of reincarnation but ...

Let me help with this as well …

Some apologists, arguably folks who never met the man and writing decades later, pen dialogue where Jesus has talked of …​

Take care.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A loving God wouldn't torture or allow bad people to torture others.

That's a bit simplistic..

Almighty God doesn't torture anybody .. if you think that the fact that we experience pain means that 'there is no god', I wouldn't agree.

Almighty God has decreed pleasure and pain! Naturally, we don't like pain and try to minimise it .. that is part of the learning, no?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That's a bit simplistic..

Almighty God doesn't torture anybody .. if you think that the fact that we experience pain means that 'there is no god', I wouldn't agree.

Almighty God has decreed pleasure and pain! Naturally, we don't like pain and try to minimise it .. that is part of the learning, no?

What of those who are sent to the fire after death for eternity? Surely that will count as torture?

 

[muhammad_isa]

What of those who are sent to the fire after death for eternity? Surely that will count as torture?

Whoever is in difficulty in the life after death, whether Almighty God takes action or does not action, it's all the same.

What happens to a criminal eventually? Don't they get caught and punished?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

My pleasure.

Let me help with this as well …

Some apologists, arguably folks who never met the man and writing decades later, pen dialogue where Jesus has talked of …​

Take care.

..Are you known for being sarcastic on the forum and taking things out of context? Jesus has talked about it. In fact one reads the bible, he even sort of mentions having a Buddhist like attitude toward life and the after life, and obviously Buddhism was around long before Christianity.

Please quote the entire passage instead of just parts of it just so you can make your point more valid. It doesn't work when you only quote part of it.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

That's a bit simplistic..

Almighty God doesn't torture anybody .. if you think that the fact that we experience pain means that 'there is no god', I wouldn't agree.

Almighty God has decreed pleasure and pain! Naturally, we don't like pain and try to minimize it .. that is part of the learning, no?

Everything happens for a reason and we feel pain for a reason. If there wasn't a reason, we wouldn't feel pain to begin with. But eternal pain? Than again in my point of view an unjust person would basically be reincarnated if they redeemed themselves to make up for the pain they cause.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Whoever is in difficulty in the life after death, whether Almighty God takes action or does not action, it's all the same.

What happens to a criminal eventually? Don't they get caught and punished?

Nope, sorry. Saying it's out of your god's hands doesn't work when your god is purported to be all-powerful. The system of paradise or hellfire was instituted by your god and the context of how our actions are treated exists entirely in that system. How can a deity be all-loving yet think it is moral, indeed necessary, to meet finite crimes with infinite punishment?

Whether criminals are caught and punished depends entirely upon action of those in pursuit of retribution or justice. Which means the eternal punishment of people for non-crimes such as 'unbelief' rests entirely on your god's shoulders.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

..Are you known for being sarcastic on the forum and taking things out of context?

Are you known for being dense? If you wish to claim that Jesus said something, quote your source and defend its credibility.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Are you known for being dense? If you wish to claim that Jesus said something, quote your source and defend its credibility.

It's a wonder why you haven't been banned yet. And please stop following me wherever I post. You seem to have some weird obsession about me. It's getting creepy.

It wouldn't matter if I quoted it because you won't believe me anyway. Do you know how to read? I'm not your mom who's going to spoon feed you the answers. Use that thing that's in your skull and find out.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It wouldn't matter if I quoted it because you won't believe me anyway.

Maybe others would be curious about the source of your claims and its credibility. It's even possible that it would reflect on you and your credibility.

Anyway, if you're more comfortable just making vapid and unsupported claims, that's OK too.