Lot - Why he wasn't such a bad guy.

[SoyLeche]

So basicly the WHOLE DOCTRINE stems from the apparance of Maroni to Joseph Smith, because he TELLS about the golden tables and so on.

Nope.

And it's Moroni, not Maroni.

 

[TashaN]

Becky, I like you and am not wanting to come across as if I am being mean, but how in the world are you making the argument that an "inspired version" of a story, that was originally written down well over 2500 years ago, and re-written (in its inspired form) by Joseph Smith in the 1800's was "changed" in its original writing, and Joe's version is actually the more accurate?

I guess she was making the point that the writing is getting back to it's original form because it was changed through time by men, so later on Smith came and through his inspiration, he could fix what have been changed from it's "original form" but not that Smith came to change the original one.

 

[rocka21]

Nope.

And it's Moroni, not Maroni.

so........ in the old testament and new testament of the KJV bible, there were no references to someone that had died and came back to visit someone (accept to visit JESUS), until in the 1800's when Joseph Smith was visited.

so out of all God's prophets, disciples, apostles in the bible (and please don't make me name Abraham, Isaac , jacob , david, peter, james, etc. etc.) , there were NONE that were visited by a dead person, UNTIL MORONI to Joseph Smith.

So......... its Joseph Smith and Jesus.

in the scriptures, when a person other than God in flesh ( Jesus) was visited by a dead person, it was a demon. Please tell me why this is different?

 

[adilrockstar]

The Bible warns against any adding to the Bible, even by a prophet of God. No prophet of God would claim that the Bible is incomplete. The Bible is the COMPLETE word of God. Once you open it up for adding to and taking away, you weaken it. God did not create it for us to tear apart. This is blasphemy.

God Bless

Adil

 

[SoyLeche]

The Bible warns against any adding to the Bible, even by a prophet of God. No prophet of God would claim that the Bible is incomplete. The Bible is the COMPLETE word of God. Once you open it up for adding to and taking away, you weaken it. God did not create it for us to tear apart. This is blasphemy.

God Bless

Adil

Care to back up what you are claiming the Bible says with where the Bible says it?

 

[SoyLeche]

so........ in the old testament and new testament of the KJV bible, there were no references to someone that had died and came back to visit someone (accept to visit JESUS), until in the 1800's when Joseph Smith was visited.

so out of all God's prophets, disciples, apostles in the bible (and please don't make me name Abraham, Isaac , jacob , david, peter, james, etc. etc.) , there were NONE that were visited by a dead person, UNTIL MORONI to Joseph Smith.

So......... its Joseph Smith and Jesus.

in the scriptures, when a person other than God in flesh ( Jesus) was visited by a dead person, it was a demon. Please tell me why this is different?

For the 3rd time - I believe that every time an Angel is mentioned in the Bible, it is someone who either hasn't been born yet or who has lived and died. Therefore, many of the prophets were visited by people who had died (or not been born yet). Abraham, Jacob, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, John, etc.

 

[SoyLeche]

Care to back up what you are claiming the Bible says with where the Bible says it?

And, before you bring out Revelation 22:18, just be aware that I already have a very good refutation of your interpretation of that one, so you may want to just skip that part

 

[SoyLeche]

Care to back up what you are claiming the Bible says with where the Bible says it?

And, before you bring out Revelation 22:18, just be aware that I already have a very good refutation of your interpretation of that one, so you may want to just skip that part

 

[Gentoo]

The Bible warns against any adding to the Bible, even by a prophet of God. No prophet of God would claim that the Bible is incomplete. The Bible is the COMPLETE word of God. Once you open it up for adding to and taking away, you weaken it. God did not create it for us to tear apart. This is blasphemy.

God Bless

Adil

What about the King James version of the Bible, didn't he add and take away from it?

 

[adilrockstar]

What about the King James version of the Bible, didn't he add and take away from it?

All King James did was offer translation.

 

[rocka21]

The Bible warns against any adding to the Bible, even by a prophet of God. No prophet of God would claim that the Bible is incomplete. The Bible is the COMPLETE word of God. Once you open it up for adding to and taking away, you weaken it. God did not create it for us to tear apart. This is blasphemy.

God Bless

Adil

tell us how you really feel:angel2:

 

[adilrockstar]

Care to back up what you are claiming the Bible says with where the Bible says it?

This is one of many scriptures that back up my stance. If anyone would like more I will gladly supply them.

Galatians 1:6-12​

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


God Bless

Adil

 

[rocka21]

For the 3rd time - I believe that every time an Angel is mentioned in the Bible, it is someone who either hasn't been born yet or who has lived and died. Therefore, many of the prophets were visited by people who had died (or not been born yet). Abraham, Jacob, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, John, etc.

yes, but no angels in the scriptures ( kjv) were ever said to be a living person that has died and came back.


now you cannot use your belief in what the golden plates say about angels, because again, the one who showed the golden plates was a dead prophet that appared to Joseph Smith.

Do you have KJV back up on what angels are?

 

[SoyLeche]

yes, but no angels in the scriptures ( kjv) were ever said to be a living person that has died and came back.


now you cannot use your belief in what the golden plates say about angels, because again, the one who showed the golden plates was a dead prophet that appared to Joseph Smith.

Do you have KJV back up on what angels are?

Nope. I don't need to back everything up with the KJV though. That's why God has given us more.

 

[SoyLeche]

This is one of many scriptures that back up my stance. If anyone would like more I will gladly supply them.

Galatians 1:6-12​

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


God Bless

Adil

Most of the Christian world believes in an "other gospel" than what was actually taught, so the warning was good.

This verse only works if you believe that what the Christian world at the time of Joseph Smith was teaching was the same gospel that Paul is talking about. If it wasn't then the fact that Joseph Smith taught something slightly different isn't automatically addressed by this verse.

 

[SoyLeche]

This is one of many scriptures that back up my stance. If anyone would like more I will gladly supply them.

Galatians 1:6-12​

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


God Bless

Adil

Also notice, asuming the "we" he references includes John, he might well be warning them not to accept the book of Revelation as scripture, for example.

 

[adilrockstar]

Most of the Christian world believes in an "other gospel" than what was actually taught, so the warning was good.

This verse only works if you believe that what the Christian world at the time of Joseph Smith was teaching was the same gospel that Paul is talking about. If it wasn't then the fact that Joseph Smith taught something slightly different isn't automatically addressed by this verse.

One common tactic that Satan uses to deceive people is to claim new revelations that aren't in the Bible. His bag of tricks includes written "revelations" like the Book of Mormon, the Urantia book and the Koran. It also includes direct spiritual revelations like the alleged Marian apparitions. These extra-Biblical revelations are often very seductive because they offer alleged secret knowledge that wasn't revealed in the Bible. Books like the Urantia book are even more seductive because of their elaborate, in-depth expose of the spiritual world and the alleged universes beyond our own.

Sadly, many of these deceived people will never turn to the Bible for the life-saving guidance it can give them. They avoid the Bible for a variety of reasons. Some do so because of sin in their life they're afraid they'll have to give up if they fully submit to God's authority in the manner God demands it of them in scriptures. Others won't turn to the Bible because Satan has already thoroughly deceived them into not trusting it. Others will turn to the Bible but because they are members of liberal churches who engaged in what could only be described as highly tortured Bible interpretation, they won't find the truth even though it's right under their noses. The bottom line is this

Here is a good place to look, it will explain exactly the same way that I feel about this topic:

http://www.creationists.org/cults_new_revelations.html

 

[Gentoo]

One common tactic that Satan uses to deceive people is to claim new revelations that aren't in the Bible. His bag of tricks includes written "revelations" like the Book of Mormon, the Urantia book and the Koran. It also includes direct spiritual revelations like the alleged Marian apparitions. These extra-Biblical revelations are often very seductive because they offer alleged secret knowledge that wasn't revealed in the Bible. Books like the Urantia book are even more seductive because of their elaborate, in-depth expose of the spiritual world and the alleged universes beyond our own.

Sadly, many of these deceived people will never turn to the Bible for the life-saving guidance it can give them. They avoid the Bible for a variety of reasons. Some do so because of sin in their life they're afraid they'll have to give up if they fully submit to God's authority in the manner God demands it of them in scriptures. Others won't turn to the Bible because Satan has already thoroughly deceived them into not trusting it. Others will turn to the Bible but because they are members of liberal churches who engaged in what could only be described as highly tortured Bible interpretation, they won't find the truth even though it's right under their noses. The bottom line is this

Here is a good place to look, it will explain exactly the same way that I feel about this topic:

http://www.creationists.org/cults_new_revelations.html

One thing I have with this way of thinking (the bible is true, everything else is Devil written) is with all of the souls and demons to overlook in his realm of Hell, how does he find the time to write all these things? There are only 24 hours in a day and I imagine that the overlord of Hell has better and more productive things to do in his own realm than write Holy Books.

 

[adilrockstar]

One thing I have with this way of thinking (the bible is true, everything else is Devil written) is with all of the souls and demons to overlook in his realm of Hell, how does he find the time to write all these things? There are only 24 hours in a day and I imagine that the overlord of Hell has better and more productive things to do in his own realm than write Holy Books.

I am assuming this is a joke.

 

[Gentoo]

I am assuming this is a joke.

Actually no, that was me rationalizing that all Holy Books are of God. The Devil is going to get his fair share of souls whether he creates his own or not. I personally find it absurd that he would do that.