[LHP] Why am I afraid?

[Kapalika]

She may be referring to the Western Left Hand Path, not the Eastern Left Hand Path which is nothing more that another tributary of the RHP.

I kindly ask you to take your propaganda elsewhere. The Left Hand Path's origins are Hindu and the majority of LHP practitioners worldwide are Hindu and so so called 'eastern LHP' will always be as much Left Hand Path as it's western counterparts.

We got centuries on you and honestly your insistence on calling it RHP is ethnocentric, offensive, and misinformed.

Also just because you and your organization says that only your specific idea of LHP is the only "true" LHP doesn't make it fact. I often wonder where you think the term LHP came from, if not Hinduism.

 

[EtuMalku]

I kindly ask you to take your propaganda elsewhere. The Left Hand Path's origins are Hindu and the majority of LHP practitioners worldwide are Hindu and so so called 'eastern LHP' will always be as much Left Hand Path as it's western counterparts.

We got centuries on you and honestly your insistence on calling it RHP is ethnocentric, offensive, and misinformed.

Also just because you and your organization says that only your specific idea of LHP is the only "true" LHP doesn't make it fact. I often wonder where you think the term LHP came from, if not Hinduism.

You can have your fake LHP system, we have ours, which is the Western LHP and actually not a version of the RHP as is Eastern LHP practices.

We all know where the Eastern term LHP came from and it is not the Western definition. My organization is far from the only onlewhich considers the Western LHP to be the different than the Eastern LHP.

 

[Liu]

You can have your fake LHP system, we have ours, which is the Western LHP and actually not a version of the RHP as is Eastern LHP practices.

We all know where the Eastern term LHP came from and it is not the Western definition. My organization is far from the only onlewhich considers the Western LHP to be the different than the Eastern LHP.

Come on, I thought we had discussed that topic enough?

I'm certainly much less of a Hindu than @Kapalika is, and 99% of LHP-literature I have read was written by westeners (and 95% of it about not-Hindu forms of the LHP), and still I find my form of the western LHP to resemble much more closely @Kapalika's than yours.

So, sure, there are differences between east and west, but the differences among the western LHPs (and probably also among the eastern ones) can be quite vast themselves.
So this dichotomy into east vs. west oversimplifies things and might find differences between one kind of western LHP and one kind of eastern LHP and falsely generalize them to apply to all kinds thereof.

 

[Liu]

@Deidre I would have the impression that it depends very much on what beliefs you have about God.
Your fears imply that you believe him to have a problem with the LHP.
And considering mainstream beliefs in Christianity, that is not surprising nor unjustified.
So I would suggest you take some time reflecting on what you truly believe, and why you do so.

Another idea might be to look into heterodox forms of Christianity - e.g. cathars, gnostics, mystics in general - to see whether you can relate to any of them and to have some form of historic grounds and rolemodel on which to build your beliefs.

 

[EtuMalku]

Come on, I thought we had discussed that topic enough?

I'm certainly much less of a Hindu than @Kapalika is, and 99% of LHP-literature I have read was written by westeners (and 95% of it about not-Hindu forms of the LHP), and still I find my form of the western LHP to resemble much more closely @Kapalika's than yours.

So, sure, there are differences between east and west, but the differences among the western LHPs (and probably also among the eastern ones) can be quite vast themselves.
So this dichotomy into east vs. west oversimplifies things and might find differences between one kind of western LHP and one kind of eastern LHP and falsely generalize them to apply to all kinds thereof.

It was not my intention to debate East/West again, but some people simply can't let it go.

 

[Liu]

It was not my intention to debate East/West again, but some people simply can't let it go.

Reading your and Kapalika's comments here it is my impression that it's you who started the discussion. She brought up the terms first in this thread, but not in the context of describing what is specifically eastern or western LHP and what isn't, but rather in what are the historical meanings of LHP, what are some general characteristics, what is RHP in contrast to that, what do some specific kinds of eastern or western LHPers believe, etc.
Admittedly, some parts are a matter of interpretation, depending on which I might also disagree with some of her points, but the two of us seem to have gotten quite a different impression of her comments here.

 

[EtuMalku]

Reading your and Kapalika's comments here it is my impression that it's you who started the discussion. She brought up the terms first in this thread, but not in the context of describing what is specifically eastern or western LHP and what isn't, but rather in what are the historical meanings of LHP, what are some general characteristics, what is RHP in contrast to that, what do some specific kinds of eastern or western LHPers believe, etc.
Admittedly, some parts are a matter of interpretation, depending on which I might also disagree with some of her points, but the two of us seem to have gotten quite a different impression of her comments here.

She started it with "I kindly ask you to take your propaganda elsewhere." . . . she immediately assumes the OP believes and agrees with her definition of LHP, which is an Eastern version, not the Western version tied in with actual Occult practices such as Satanism, Luciferianism, and Mercurænism. I don't think my comment "she may be referring to the Western Left Hand Path, not the Eastern Left Hand Path which is nothing more that another tributary of the RHP." warranted a reply such as the one I got.

 

[Liu]

She started it with "I kindly ask you to take your propaganda elsewhere." . . . she immediately assumes the OP believes and agrees with her definition of LHP, which is an Eastern version, not the Western version tied in with actual Occult practices such as Satanism, Luciferianism, and Mercurænism. I don't think my comment "she may be referring to the Western Left Hand Path, not the Eastern Left Hand Path which is nothing more that another tributary of the RHP." warranted a reply such as the one I got.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts behind them, but those words by you still sound quite offensive to me and her reply doesn't seem strange to me at all.

Well, if that is your belief that the eastern LHP is utterly different from the western one then I guess I understand your reasoning (while disagreeing), but to me you seem to be the one here who immediately assumes her version of the LHP is invalid because it's inspired by eastern practices and differs from your version of the LHP. Nearly everything she wrote there was something I as a western LHPer could also more or less identify with, and even if not - the LHP is about forging your own spirituality, so differences should be no surprise.

And are you now implying that the eastern forms of the LHP have no occult practices? I mean, as I said, I'm not much of an expert on them, but that's really not my impression of them, on the contrary.

Btw, not sure whether that's the best time to bring it up, but since the topic of "what is LHP (and what is RHP)" comes up again and again, what would you all here think about asking the self-identifying RHPers of this forum for their definition? The only issue is, I'm not sure whether many RHPers normally actively identify as such.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

Perhaps you are afraid your god is nothing but a facet of yourself.

 

[EtuMalku]

Well, if that is your belief that the eastern LHP is utterly different from the western one then I guess I understand your reasoning (while disagreeing), but to me you seem to be the one here who immediately assumes her version of the LHP is invalid because it's inspired by eastern practices and differs from your version of the LHP.

Not invalid, just not what the Western LHP is about, and the OP should be given the opportunity to understand there are differences.

And are you now implying that the eastern forms of the LHP have no occult practices? I mean, as I said, I'm not much of an expert on them, but that's really not my impression of them, on the contrary.

Depends on what you mean by 'occult practices'.

Btw, not sure whether that's the best time to bring it up, but since the topic of "what is LHP (and what is RHP)" comes up again and again, what would you all here think about asking the self-identifying RHPers of this forum for their definition? The only issue is, I'm not sure whether many RHPers normally actively identify as such.

How would you define RHP? (so these people know it's them you're asking to comment)

 

[allfoak]

Then, why am I afraid?

I remember years ago when I abandoned Christianity because I felt it was holding me back, there was one thing that I held onto.
I knew that God would not abandon someone who was on an honest search for truth.
My experience tells me after all of these years away from Christianity and searching for truth that I was correct.
I still have my personal relationship with God.

 

[EtuMalku]

Your post has been so helpful thank you!! I always wondered if the LHP would be opposed to my beliefs on the RHP side so this brings me happiness to know the two can coexist. I actually thought that since we are both light and dark, that the LHP and RHP can work hand in hand to understand the other. Is that totally off?

You may find my post here helpful in understanding the Western Left Hand Path

Left Hand Path?

 

[SalixIncendium]

**MOD POST**
​

This is Left-Hand Path Religions DIR. Debate is not permitted in DIRs.

Rule 10 reminder:

10. Debating in Non-debate Forums or Posting in DIR/ONLY Forums
Religious forums is structured to provide spaces for many different kinds of conversations. Different kinds of conversations belong in different areas of the forum:

1) Debates should be kept to the debate areas of the forums, including Religious Debates, General Debates, and Political Debates. Debating anywhere other than these forums may result in moderation. Same Faith Debates is governed by special rules described here. Only members of the specified groups(s) can participate in these threads.
​

If you wish to debate different LHP traditions and their origins, please take the conversation to Same Faith Debates.

 

[Liu]

@SalixIncendium It's quite a matter of debate for some of us. We now moved to a more on topic thread: Left Hand Path?
Perhaps you want to move that thread into the same-faith-debates-section?

 

[EtuMalku]

**MOD POST**
​

This is Left-Hand Path Religions DIR. Debate is not permitted in DIRs.

Rule 10 reminder:

10. Debating in Non-debate Forums or Posting in DIR/ONLY Forums
Religious forums is structured to provide spaces for many different kinds of conversations. Different kinds of conversations belong in different areas of the forum:

1) Debates should be kept to the debate areas of the forums, including Religious Debates, General Debates, and Political Debates. Debating anywhere other than these forums may result in moderation. Same Faith Debates is governed by special rules described here. Only members of the specified groups(s) can participate in these threads.
​

If you wish to debate different LHP traditions and their origins, please take the conversation to Same Faith Debates.

If there was a clear and finite definition of LHP then there wouldn't be any debate.

 

[Polymath257]

***Mod Post***

Moved to General Debates.

 

[Deidre]

There’s an assumption that I’m following Christianity but I’m not. I believe in God but consider myself non-religious, I don’t the think that RHP should be pigeon holed to specific religions. But why is it the opposite of the LHP? Is there a notion that the LHP is more liberating or allows for more self exploration than the RHP?

 

[Deidre]

Perhaps you are afraid your god is nothing but a facet of yourself.

No, not at all.

 

[Kapalika]

why is it the opposite of the LHP?

I don't think that the occult counterparts can really say they have the same kind of duality to RHP/LHP that Hinduism does. In Hinduism they are laid about by tradition and lineage, by what kind of practices are allowed. In Satanism, ect, there really isn't an 'opposite' since it's not part of what people would typically call "RHP" religions (ie Christianity).

Is there a notion that the LHP is more liberating or allows for more self exploration than the RHP?

I think it can be, but that it ultimately comes down to what kind of person you are. The LHP is not superior or inferior to the RHP. The thing with the LHP is it's double-edged so you need to walk a finer line in terms of maintaining a healthy spiritual life. This is why traditionally LHP, as like many forms of Tantra, is initiation based.

There is a similar thing in western occultism and it's no coincidence that a lot of Satanists and Setians take from the earlier occult traditions such as those Aliester Crowley was involved in, ect who predated any traditions in western occultism that described themselves as LHP. Some of those earlier sects called themselves RHP to mean they were not black magicians but a lot predated even that use since it only came to be around the 1800's. Most modern uses of the term LHP comes from Satanism's adoption of the term in the 1960's.

 

[EtuMalku]

I don’t the think that RHP should be pigeon holed to specific religions. But why is it the opposite of the LHP? Is there a notion that the LHP is more liberating or allows for more self exploration than the RHP?

The RHP religions are diametrically opposed to the Western LHP.

Perennial philosophy is the understanding that all the world's (RHP) religions share a single, universal doctrine. This doctrine posits that the highest good that human life can achieve is through the union with a Supreme Being / Energy of the Universe. The way in which this is achieved is through the deception of one's conscious awareness into believing that one has been accepted by this Supreme Being / Energy otherwise known as the objective universe.

So, the RHP is the path of union with universal reality (God or Nature). When this union is completed the individual self is annihilated, the individual will becomes one with the divine or natural order.

The Western LHP is the path of non-union with the objective universe, the way of isolating consciousness within one's subjective universe and, in a state of self-imposod psychic solitude, refining the soul or psyche to increasingly perfect levels. The objective universe is then made to harmonize itself with the will of the individual psyche, not the other way around.