[LHP] Why am I afraid?

[Deidre]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's normal to be afraid of "dark" and "bad" and "forbidden" things. But a great method for self growth is to find what you fear and go live there.

 

[Aldrnari]

What about it are you afraid of?

 

[godnotgod]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

Try the Zen approach, and ask yourself the question: 'Who is it that is afraid?', and is there really a self called 'I' that is afraid, or is there simply the experience of fear itself? And if, in your examination, you discover that there is no such 'I' that is afraid, then what? Are you now free of fear? That is to say, is there now only the experience of freedom, without an experiencer of the experience called 'I'?

The true path is neither to the left nor to the right. As long as you are thinking left and right, you will be in duality, and will only perpetuate your confusion and fear. Just let go of both and be free.

The problem with most people in seeking answers is that they have one eye on the path, and one eye on the goal, rather than both eyes on the path.

 

[Srivijaya]

then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict...
...Then, why am I afraid?

Based on what you wrote, you have doubts about the LHP. Perhaps this is because on one level you intuit that the LHP is no more able to offer answers to your stress than the RHP

This isn't to say there's nothing of value in either... but...

If you want to deal with stress, you need to understand what it is and what its causes are and it's really nothing to do with any religious belief, or ideas we fill our brains with. In fact, in most cases, there's a disconnect between our innermost feelings and what any religion tells us we 'should' be feeling.

What helped me was breathing meditation in the original Buddhist tradition. You can regard it more like a physical yoga than anything esoteric (though it gets pretty esoteric if its done right).

 

[crossfire]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

Faith and doubt are part of what it means to be human. Faith needs doubt to test it. There is no need to throw out what you have thoroughly tested with doubt.

 

[crossfire]

Try the Zen approach, and ask yourself the question: 'Who is it that is afraid?', and is there really a self called 'I' that is afraid, or is there simply the experience of fear itself? And if, in your examination, you discover that there is no such 'I' that is afraid, then what? Are you now free of fear? That is to say, is there now only the experience of freedom, without an experiencer of the experience called 'I'?

This is more Advaita than Zen.

 

[crossfire]

Based on what you wrote, you have doubts about the LHP. Perhaps this is because on one level you intuit that the LHP is no more able to offer answers to your stress than the RHP

This isn't to say there's nothing of value in either... but...

If you want to deal with stress, you need to understand what it is and what its causes are and it's really nothing to do with any religious belief, or ideas we fill our brains with. In fact, in most cases, there's a disconnect between our innermost feelings and what any religion tells us we 'should' be feeling.

What helped me was breathing meditation in the original Buddhist tradition. You can regard it more like a physical yoga than anything esoteric (though it gets pretty esoteric if its done right).

For me, Zazen keeps demonstrating its usefulness in different ways.

 

[crossfire]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

Are you afraid of your Shadow? The only one who doesn't cast a shadow is standing in the dark.

 

[godnotgod]

This is more Advaita than Zen.

Are you referring to the content of my post or to the video?

 

[crossfire]

Are you referring to the content of my post or to the video?

This part:

Try the Zen approach, and ask yourself the question: 'Who is it that is afraid?',

​

We can always go debate this in the same-faith debate forums or one-on-one debates forums. (This is the LHP DIR, so no debating here.)

 

[godnotgod]

This part:

​

We can always go debate this in the same-faith debate forums or one-on-one debates forums. (This is the LHP DIR, so no debating here.)

OK, but a classic Zen question is: 'Who is it that is asking the question?', and such.

 

[EtuMalku]

I vacillate between my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP. I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself? I find my relationship with God to be fulfilling, but then there are times when I don't know what to do. How to deal with stress, or how to make sense of conflict. I looked into the LHP last year, and there is a part of me that fears it. But, I shouldn't. I shouldn't fear change, change is good. New discoveries are good.

Then, why am I afraid?


(and excerpt from my journal here and on a LHP forum)

I believe your fear is in that you truly believe there is a god, and that if you step off the RHP you will somehow be separated from your god and no longer privy to the cookies and cake promised by a lifetime of devotion.

 

[Deidre]

I believe your fear is in that you truly believe there is a god, and that if you step off the RHP you will somehow be separated from your god and no longer privy to the cookies and cake promised by a lifetime of devotion.

There’s no cookies and cake. But, fear of separation, perhaps.

 

[EtuMalku]

There’s no cookies and cake. But, fear of separation, perhaps.

Separation is a real fear for those indoctrinated into religions, but also is losing all the rewards promised by most RHP's.

However, indoctrination is enough for most people to overcome, the process of undoing everything that has been done to them.

 

[Deidre]

Separation is a real fear for those indoctrinated into religions, but also is losing all the rewards promised by most RHP's.

However, indoctrination is enough for most people to overcome, the process of undoing everything that has been done to them.

I thought I had done that but maybe it’s an ongoing process.

 

[Kapalika]

I'm convinced that the RHP and LHP can live in harmony, but am I only fooling myself?

You're not fooling yourself. A lot of LHP folks who say that the RHP is inherently opposed are applying the term Right Hand Path to things that don't really fit the term and honestly a lot of the misunderstanding comes from how the term was misapplied in the last century or so.

Traditionally and even today many LHP and RHP Hindus live in harmony for example. Now they don't always... many Hindus see LHP as just evil/black magic but that isn't universal. It really depends on what sect they are and where they live and some other factors like that. But ya, I don't see anything wrong with the RHP.

I think what a lot of western LHP are actually having a problem with when they say "RHP" is the destructive parts and sects of Abrahamic religions. I'm not sure that Christianity ect really should even be called Right Hand Path. Part of the problem is the terms were a lot more specific until occultists appropriated it and everyone keeps changing the definition. I'd definitely say though that Satanism is often LHP in regards to society in general... but I can't think of any individual RHP equivalent to mirror it.

my love for God, a personal God, and wanting to follow the LHP.

Bhakti goes very well with LHP in my opinion. Traditionally, the Left Hand Path is a way to unite with one's god. I personally don't believe in a personal god but the more dualistic LHP sects do. To each their own.

 

[Deidre]

You're not fooling yourself. A lot of LHP folks who say that the RHP is inherently opposed are applying the term Right Hand Path to things that don't really fit the term and honestly a lot of the misunderstanding comes from how the term was misapplied in the last century or so.

Traditionally and even today many LHP and RHP Hindus live in harmony for example. Now they don't always... many Hindus see LHP as just evil/black magic but that isn't universal. It really depends on what sect they are and where they live and some other factors like that. But ya, I don't see anything wrong with the RHP.

I think what a lot of western LHP are actually having a problem with when they say "RHP" is the destructive parts and sects of Abrahamic religions. I'm not sure that Christianity ect really should even be called Right Hand Path. Part of the problem is the terms were a lot more specific until occultists appropriated it and everyone keeps changing the definition. I'd definitely say though that Satanism is often LHP in regards to society in general... but I can't think of any individual RHP equivalent to mirror it.



Bhakti goes very well with LHP in my opinion. Traditionally, the Left Hand Path is a way to unite with one's god. I personally don't believe in a personal god but the more dualistic LHP sects do. To each their own.

Your post has been so helpful thank you!! I always wondered if the LHP would be opposed to my beliefs on the RHP side so this brings me happiness to know the two can coexist. I actually thought that since we are both light and dark, that the LHP and RHP can work hand in hand to understand the other. Is that totally off?

 

[Kapalika]

Your post has been so helpful thank you!! I always wondered if the LHP would be opposed to my beliefs on the RHP side so this brings me happiness to know the two can coexist. I actually thought that since we are both light and dark, that the LHP and RHP can work hand in hand to understand the other. Is that totally off?

It's similar to what I do... I might focus more on the dark out of preference but I recognize both the light and darkness in Shiva/Satan.

Ultimately, Right Hand Path will come down to following orthodox values and injunctions in regards to worship, ritual and actions, and Left Hand Path will be eschewing conventional practice and has a kind of more proactive type of approach that's generally transgressive in some way. So long as you don't try to do any magic or rituals that you aren't emotionally prepared everything should be fine. The pros of the LHP is it can be more suited for some types of people who want liberation from Samsara and it can be somewhat "quick and dirty" if you avoid any of the common pitfalls. The cons are, well the pitfalls. And sometimes people think you are weird but for someone who's heart is in the LHP that shouldn't really matter much.

In a more technical and traditional definition, the Left Hand Path is known as "vamachara" or "vamamarga". The latter is less ambiguous (being most literally "Left Way") whereas vamachara kind of has a double meaning of "woman" or "pleasant". Right Hand Path is "daksinachara" and refers to Tantric sects. LHP is actually a bit' of a subjective term since it's contextual to lineage, taste and culture. The reason I say that western LHP, Satanism, ect, doesn't have a proper mirror RHP sect is because there really isn't anything historical to pair it with other than perhaps western occultism but generally the most things it draws from it wouldn't consider RHP by Satanists and Setians ect

I honestly think a lot of western styled LHP (Satanism, Setian ect) who seek some kind of identification with divinity don't realize they basically are practicing a similar manifestation of the same essential truth, since the core of Hinduism is to realize one's divinity as well, particularly in Tantra it's normal to wish to become identified with deities as individuated. I'm not aware of any monistic LHP sects in Hinduism and my own religion of Trika (Kashmir Shaivism) is a fairly notable exception in that it's nondual and not dualistic. It claims to supersede Siddhanna Shaivism which is RHP and dualistic Tantra, although Trika itself can be RHP or LHP but it's roots are predominantly in the Kapalikas who were LHP as well as having some influence from Tibetan Buddhism.

Anyways sorry to ramble, it's just a subject I love!

 

[EtuMalku]

It's similar to what I do... I might focus more on the dark out of preference but I recognize both the light and darkness in Shiva/Satan.

Ultimately, Right Hand Path will come down to following orthodox values and injunctions in regards to worship, ritual and actions, and Left Hand Path will be eschewing conventional practice and has a kind of more proactive type of approach that's generally transgressive in some way. So long as you don't try to do any magic or rituals that you aren't emotionally prepared everything should be fine. The pros of the LHP is it can be more suited for some types of people who want liberation from Samsara and it can be somewhat "quick and dirty" if you avoid any of the common pitfalls. The cons are, well the pitfalls. And sometimes people think you are weird but for someone who's heart is in the LHP that shouldn't really matter much.

In a more technical and traditional definition, the Left Hand Path is known as "vamachara" or "vamamarga". The latter is less ambiguous (being most literally "Left Way") whereas vamachara kind of has a double meaning of "woman" or "pleasant". Right Hand Path is "daksinachara" and refers to Tantric sects. LHP is actually a bit' of a subjective term since it's contextual to lineage, taste and culture. The reason I say that western LHP, Satanism, ect, doesn't have a proper mirror RHP sect is because there really isn't anything historical to pair it with other than perhaps western occultism but generally the most things it draws from it wouldn't consider RHP by Satanists and Setians ect

I honestly think a lot of western styled LHP (Satanism, Setian ect) who seek some kind of identification with divinity don't realize they basically are practicing a similar manifestation of the same essential truth, since the core of Hinduism is to realize one's divinity as well, particularly in Tantra it's normal to wish to become identified with deities as individuated. I'm not aware of any monistic LHP sects in Hinduism and my own religion of Trika (Kashmir Shaivism) is a fairly notable exception in that it's nondual and not dualistic. It claims to supersede Siddhanna Shaivism which is RHP and dualistic Tantra, although Trika itself can be RHP or LHP but it's roots are predominantly in the Kapalikas who were LHP as well as having some influence from Tibetan Buddhism.

Anyways sorry to ramble, it's just a subject I love!

She may be referring to the Western Left Hand Path, not the Eastern Left Hand Path which is nothing more that another tributary of the RHP.