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Let's talk about Hell

outhouse

Atheistically
where does GOD fit into your claims and credits to yourselves ???

god is mans imagination in my opinion nothing more. The bible is fiction based on a few loose facts.

Are you allowing Him to have any say ?

imagination doesnt get a say.

You may have missed a very important scripture in Isaiah.:cover:

I have missed nothing.

This thread is about hell, I have shown a clear path through the jewish fiction of hell to the jewish authors of the NT that turn sheol, the hades myth [fiction] and gehenna into the mythical hell [fiction] the christians use. in my opinion.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
god is mans imagination in my opinion nothing more. The bible is fiction based on a few loose facts.
imagination doesnt get a say.
I have missed nothing.
This thread is about hell, I have shown a clear path through the jewish fiction of hell to the jewish authors of the NT that turn sheol, the hades myth [fiction] and gehenna into the mythical hell [fiction] the christians use. in my opinion.
What exactly are you doing on a religious discussion forum if a Christians view is so meaningless to you ??? :areyoucra
 
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Jacksnyte

Reverend
What exactly are you doing on a religious discussion forum if a Christians view is so meaningless to you ??? :areyoucra

We need a real dialogue across all different faiths. This country is quickly becoming more and more spiritually diverse. What happens when we discuss such things is that it will hopefully get all parties involved to think about their beliefs more carfeully, and about becoming more understanding and tolerant of spiritual diversity.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
What exactly are you doing on a religious discussion forum if a Christians view is so meaningless to you ??? :areyoucra


WHEN DID CHRISTIANITY become the only game in town.

Theres many gods, probably thousands. what makes your jewish god so special
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Jesus is speaking about the heavenly resurrection here...that is called the 'first' resurrection and it is specifically for those who will be joint heirs with Christ in the kingdom of God. These ones are given immortality.

I think it says 'they are like angels' with reference to their gender... not with reference to living or dieing. The context of the verses surrounding it is about marrying and remarrying. The angels are without gender and therefore do not marry and this is going to be the same for those who partake of the 'first' resurrection. In heaven they will not marry like the angels.

1. Jesus was addressing a question posed by the Sadducees, in order to trap Him, concerning the marriage of a woman whose 7 husbands die without ever giving her children(vs 28-33). After addressing their question about the marriage portion (vs34-35), Jesus answered their real question about the resurrection (remember the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection) to which He explained how in our immortal state, we will be equal to angels in that neither one of us will be able to marry or die (vs36).

“the lake of fire and sulphur” can not be a literal place.

2. I categorically disagree...This is the same fire and literal punishment spoken of in Rev 20:13-15.

2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Pet 3:10,12 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?​

Also notice the words of Jesus:

Luk 12:49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!​

Revelation 20:14 says that death itself, along with Hades, is thrown into it. Surely, death and Hades cannot suffer pain because they are not tangible things that exist. "And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire"

And this is why we read of the final outcome will be as Revelation 21:4, says: “He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more,
neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more.[/I]
The former things have passed away. ”

3. The term Death and Hades is synonymous with death and the grave. Rev 20:13-15 speaks of a final resurrection (vs13), sometime after the millenium, of physical unrepentant humans (2 Pet 3:7) whose name was not found in the book of life (vs15). These humans will be cast in the lake fire, be burned up, and cease to exist.

Everyone else, at this point, would be composed of spirit. Death will no longer exist. The need for a grave will be a thing of the past and in essence destroyed in this worldwide inferno. Paul echoes Isaiah's sentiment (Isa 25:8) in 1 Cor 15:54-55 when he states, "....Death is swallowed up in victory 55 "O death, where is your sting? O hades, where is your victory." Satan and his demons will also be cast into this lake of fire and be tormented not destroyed. After all of the combustible material is burned up, the fire will die out but satan and his demons torment will continue by being confined to the abyss (bottomless pit) forever! Notice how much they fear this place!!

Luk 8:31 And they [demons] begged Him [Jesus] that He would not command them to go out into the abyss. NKJV​

In the parallel account, Matthew records a key statement missing in Luke's account made by the same demon which irrefutably supports that demon spirits will be tormented in the abyss not destroyed in the lake of fire forever!

Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"​

Notice he did not say "destroy us" before our time. Did you also notice the statement "before our time"-- what time? The time of their eternal torment with satan in Rev 20:10!!!!! .

Scriptures undeniably confirm that Satan and His demons will be cast into the worldwide lake of fire as a symbolic act of purging and destruction of the origins of sin, along with all physical ungodly men. Once all combustible material is burned up, their ultimate fate, as scriptures clearly indicate, will be torment in the abyss forever!! Not destruction in the lake of fire forever!!

So the lake of fire is symbolic of complete destruction. This means that Satan will be completely destroyed forever, eternally[


4. Unrepentant physical humans will be burned up (Mal 4:1-3); cease to exist and be destroyed forever. Fallen Spirits will not. They will be tormented--- Luke 20:35-36; Mat 25:41; Rev 20:10 says so!!

Satan and his demons were created as eternal beings with awesome power which they have grossly abused. They were given much so much was expected (Luk 12:48). Their sin requires stricter punishment. Simply destroying them forever would be no stricter punishment than that of unrepentant humans which were given much less.

After the earth is purged by fire, Satan and demons will no longer have any physical humans or animals to influence, torment, and possess. Their habitat will be purged and destroyed. They will be confined to the abyss forever which Scripture points out will absolutely horrify and mentally torment them for all eternity! This punishment most certainly fits the crime.
 
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james2ko

Well-Known Member
Luke 20v35: those resurrected to heaven, according to Rev 20v6, the second death has no power over them. Those resurrected to heaven are the saints or holy ones that rule with Jesus. -Rev 5vs9,10;20v6; Dan 7v18 They are equal to 'faithful' angels because the 'faithful angels' are the ones that are children of God. The 'unfaithful angels' are like the children of the devil at John 8v44.

1. The resurrected saints are equal to angels in that they cannot marry or die. The transition between verse 35 and 36 is conjunctive. Verse 36 should be interpreted in light of vs 35. The word nor or neither at the beginning of vs 36 is used to introduce two choices in a sentence that are not true (marriage or death) for both objects (saints and angels). The two prepositional phrases "for they are equal to the angels" modifies the object of the phrase by telling us who is equal to the angels (the resurrected saints) in what way (they cannot marry or die)!!!

The grammar, context, and meaning is as clear as day! Am I the only one that sees this!

Satan and his 'unfaithful' angels are: sinners.According to Romans 6v23 isn't 'death' the price that sin pays? In other words, all sinners die whether angelic or human. Those disobedient angels of Noah's day are in chains, so to speak , until judgment day according to Jude verse 9. They are part of those of verse 12 that are: twice dead. Twice dead or the second death of Rev 20v14.

2. Consider the context of Rom 6, Paul is addressing believers--human beings!!! Furthermore, Rom 6:23 summarizes the chapter by reminding the Roman believers "the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". Human beings have an opportunity to ultimately choose between death or eternal life. How could this comparative statement apply to any angel when they already possess the gift of eternal life?

This is further evidenced by the fact that other scriptures clearly indicate that fallen angels cannot die (Luke 20:35-36) so it would only make sense their fate would be different than humans---torment not death (Rev 20:10; Mat 25:41).

Since the definition of the lake of fire is: second death, and the first death, or the condition of the dead is being in a lifeless, unconscious state then the second death is the same except there is no resurrection from second death. [Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; John 11vs11-14]

3. Hey, we actually agree on something :)..Except for the unconcious statement. Unconscious is not technically considered dead. But I'll take it :D
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Dear friend Ed ,
My heart bleeds for you ! Not because you are in an eternal torment but because you have got it all wrong - so wrong.
You have been told a story by an erronious group of people and you have believed it/them. But you have not believed GOD , had you taken the trouble to study his Word of Truth.

There is no eternal torment in hell-fire for man because man is mortal and would quickly burn up (as in any fire) !!! :yes:


And neither there is heaven. This and hell will be one and the same in the afterlife. The name is grave. A hell because it is underground, and heaven because it will be
an eternal sleep without sleeplessness.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Without the OT writings, we would know nothing about who God is.

The NT writings are based on the fulfillment of the OT prophecies.

Before a new administration can become effective, the old one must come to an end.

Whether to the Jews, the book of Genesis is just a story, or to the Christians literal, only makes the subject matter the more important.

God is the creator period! God is also the Savior period!

What man thinketh of it all, has no bearing on the work of God.

Either one will believe it or not.

God's work in the OT and in the NT is not deterred, deferred, destroyed, added to or taken away from, in any way shape or form His work.

Let me quote this verse to our own damnation: Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

Blessings, AJ
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Without the OT writings, we would know nothing about who God is.

The NT writings are based on the fulfillment of the OT prophecies.

Before a new administration can become effective, the old one must come to an end.

Whether to the Jews, the book of Genesis is just a story, or to the Christians literal, only makes the subject matter the more important.

God is the creator period! God is also the Savior period!

What man thinketh of it all, has no bearing on the work of God.

Either one will believe it or not.

God's work in the OT and in the NT is not deterred, deferred, destroyed, added to or taken away from, in any way shape or form His work.

Let me quote this verse to our own damnation: Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

Blessings, AJ

and this all has what to do with hell???
 

outhouse

Atheistically
How it is interpreted via the thoughts of mankind or the works of God is what makes the difference.

first of all, if you look back at other post it has been shown how hell evolved from a simple grave or pit to that of the modern dogma.

do you want to argue it didnt evolve? or that hell was made later?

what is your take without having to pull scripture out. your personal views
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
We need a real dialogue across all different faiths. This country is quickly becoming more and more spiritually diverse. What happens when we discuss such things is that it will hopefully get all parties involved to think about their beliefs more carfeully, and about becoming more understanding and tolerant of spiritual diversity.
Dialogue yes I agree but Outhouse DENIES GOD and the BIBLE #661 so what is left to discuss with such a person ? :facepalm:
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
WHEN DID CHRISTIANITY become the only game in town.

Theres many gods, probably thousands. what makes your jewish god so special
Jesus Christ is man's only Saviour from eternal death . If other religions have a saviour I have never heard of one. Christians believe in Him and that makes christianity important.
The God of the Bible or jewish God as you wrongly call him is the Creator and only true God . :yes:
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
james2ko , thank you as well but let me say it is no fun to have one's long-standing convictions shattered by new revelations. I am in torment and can not sleep (now 4.30 in the morning on a cold and frosty winter's night in the UK).
I have never been much in agreement in the past with the two posters above but I do appreciate their views in this matter since it fits well with scripture.
We should always bear in mind that we are to grow in grace and knowledge which means to accept new truths - if indeed that is what they are. :rainbow1:

Just the fact that you are in torment over such an issue should be a red flag!! The Holy Spirit is a spirit of peace (Gal 5:22) and of a sound mind (2 Tim 1:17). The torment you are experiencing may be the Holy Spirit sounding its early warning system!!

Perhaps you missed my reply to UR and Pegg in post #666 and 667 here( I didnt plan the post numbers that way I promise) :D
 

Jacksnyte

Reverend
Dialogue yes I agree but Outhouse DENIES GOD and the BIBLE #661 so what is left to discuss with such a person ? :facepalm:

You can both arrive at a point where your minds may be a little more open, and you might be able to understand one another better. Dialogue is important, and understanding helps a long way towards tolerance! I am not particularly a fan of the Bible, or the god of Christianity/Judaism/Islam, but I value my friends of those faiths as much as any others! :)
 

1am1ion

Member
this may not interest you but biblically
there are
2 heavens ........ and
2 hells

1 heaven is on earth [gods king`dome]
2 is heaven in the sky where enoch went and the promise to those who keep gos word

1 hell is on earth [armageddon, thermonuclear hell]
2 is hell in the sky [cast into outter darkness of space]

you must know the scriptural texts
i dont do that part i work from memory without numbers

so perhaps you see the duality
and the trick
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Just the fact that you are in torment over such an issue should be a red flag!! The Holy Spirit is a spirit of peace (Gal 5:22) and of a sound mind (2 Tim 1:17). The torment you are experiencing may be the Holy Spirit sounding its early warning system!!

Perhaps you missed my reply to UR and Pegg in post #666 and 667 here( I didnt plan the post numbers that way I promise) :D
Thanks james , I knew there would be a little message for me too. I did read the other two. I am giving this my full attention :yes:.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
You can both arrive at a point where your minds may be a little more open, and you might be able to understand one another better. Dialogue is important, and understanding helps a long way towards tolerance! I am not particularly a fan of the Bible, or the god of Christianity/Judaism/Islam, but I value my friends of those faiths as much as any others! :)
I have no personal intolerance against anyone. All can practice their religions as they see fit. What I do not turn a blind eye to is when I and my beliefs are attacked, ridiculed, negated or denied by unbelievers so active on this forum. That does not help discussions.:no:
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Jesus Christ is man's only Saviour from eternal death . If other religions have a saviour I have never heard of one. Christians believe in Him and that makes christianity important.
The God of the Bible or jewish God as you wrongly call him is the Creator and only true God . :yes:

first of all who first starting writing about your god??? the jews did

who wrote the OT ???? the jews did

who write the NT ??? the jews did

who was your iconic figure??? a jew



The jews created your god in my opinion. Enjoy :)
 
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