Lets talk about beliefs

[We Never Know]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well if you know something, then you don't have to have a belief.

I think belief is just wanting something to be true in the absence of evidence.

 

[We Never Know]

Well if you know something, then you don't have to have a belief.

I think belief is just wanting something to be true in the absence of evidence.

Many aren't qualified to know, they only go by what qualified others tell them, and the quailfied other are only qualified by the others that agree with them, and they are only qualified because they agree with each other. Its kind of like circular reasoning.

 

[darkskies]

I agree, I see belief as anything that I accept to be true.

 

[King Phenomenon]

I don’t believe
I know
No proof required

 

[Heyo]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?

No. As formulated, those are statements of fact and thus object to debate.
If John had said "I believe god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc." it is known that those are his beliefs.
(We assume the "I believe" to be there whenever statements about faith are made, but that is assuming too much.)

So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?

Again, not in the form as stated.

In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Every formal system rests on axioms. There is no way around that. A statement can only be proven based on the axioms and the rules of deduction within the system.
Unfortunately it is often hidden what these axioms are under which people discuss and often people assume a consensus about the axioms or rules that isn't there.
I can only prove you wrong in your system if I know the rules and axioms (or, more likely, prove that your system is contradictory and ex falso quodlibet).

Convince me I'm wrong.

I didn't intend to, just making things clearer.

 

[Nakosis]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

Sure but there is rational beliefs and there is less than rational beliefs.

I suppose everyone thinks their own belief is rational but I've always question my beliefs and try my best to identify those less than rational ones.

I did believe in God but after really examining it I found it to be less than rational.

 

[SalixIncendium]

**MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES**​

 

[Valjean]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

All beliefs aren't equal. There is a hierarchy. If beliefs contradict, at least one is wrong.
Giving all points of view equal credence is an intellectual cop-out.
Is there empirical evidence on all sides? Are there logical errors in analysis or deduction? Are all parties disinterested, or is there an agenda or someone's ego-ingegrity involved?

 

[Valjean]

Well if you know something, then you don't have to have a belief.

I think belief is just wanting something to be true in the absence of evidence.

Belief is belief. It can be well supported or pure idiocy. It's still belief. Knowledge is just well-supported belief.

 

[Valjean]

Many aren't qualified to know, they only go by what qualified others tell them, and the quailfied other are only qualified by the others that agree with them, and they are only qualified because they agree with each other. Its kind of like circular reasoning.

Qualification is a product of empirical evidence and scientific methodology, not personal comfort or familiarity with a point of view, a tradition, or argument ad populum.

 

[Kfox]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

You don't need evidence to reject a claim.

 

[Valjean]

I don’t believe
I know
No proof required

Knowledge is just a type or degree of belief.
2+2=4 and "the Earth is flat" are both beliefs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

It's a opposition based on the other person's claim. We don't know what the opposing party believes about the concept o god just that he disagrees with the statement presented.

The claim and opposition of that claim means nothing on its own. Once they support their opinions/beliefs I'd think both parties explanations are considered their beliefs and opinions unless both parties can support their statements.

The only way a nonbeliever can support his statement is to challenge the validity of the statement the other made. If he believes God does not exist, he disagrees with the claim out of lack of experience.

In my opinion, both claim and opposition mean nothing unless the claimer can support his belief and the latter can disprove the validity of it based on his experience, understanding, and knowledge on the topic.

 

[Treks]

... and ex falso quodlibet.

Hey, there's no need for name calling!

Haha...

 

[PureX]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?

Why would that even matter? What matters is the content of John's assertions, and how John justifies them for us. So that we can learn from them, and perhaps clarify our own ideas on the subject. "Belief" refers to the degree to which one has judged his own opinions to be 'right'. And I can't see how that's relevant to anyone else.

In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs.

Well, actually, they are based on opposing opinions about the truth of existence. How much of how little anyone "believes in" them is irrelevant to the proposals, and their discussion.

 

[nPeace]

Well if you know something, then you don't have to have a belief.

...and if you think you know, when you really don't know, but just believe you do... that is?

I think belief is just wanting something to be true in the absence of evidence.

Is that your belief?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If John Doe comes on and post god is real, god is caring, god is the creator of life, etc. Isn't that John's beliefs?
So if anyone comes on and says god isn't real, god isn't caring, god didn't create life,,,, isn't that their belief?
In reality 99.9% of arguments/debates here are based on opposing beliefs. You can claim you lack belief or have no belief yet you have to have belief in the evidence you accept. If you didn't have belief in it you wouldn't accept it.

Convince me I'm wrong.

This is why it's useful to start with the things both people agree on, then build from there.

 

[Twilight Hue]

...and if you think you know, when you really don't know, but just believe you do... that is?


Is that your belief?

I don't need to believe something that's right in front of me. It's not like I require belief to reach out and eat my sandwich for lunch because well, I can actually reach out and eat it . ;0]

Plus I don't have beliefs. Rather I go for educated guesses that have a foundation on fact and accept the possibility that it isn't the case.

Belief is for those who are desperate to want something to be true to the point that it must be so in their minds and cannot accept that it might be wrong.

 

[Treks]

I don't need to believe something that's right in front of me. It's not like I require belief to reach out and eat my sandwich for lunch because well, I can actually reach out and eat it . ;0]

Plus I don't have beliefs. Rather I go for educated guesses that have a foundation on fact and accept the possibility that it isn't the case.

Belief is for those who are desperate to want something to be true to the point that it must be so in their minds and cannot accept that it might be wrong.

For me, I can reach out and read scripture, pray and worship, and something happens in that relationship. I'm going to make an educated guess that there is truth in my religion.

Also we all have beliefs. We can't possibly know enough about everything to operate in the world without beliefs that support a basic functioning psyche. You could Google "core beliefs" for some examples.