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Let's not talk about the Big Bang

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ben Dhyan said:
Theoretical BB you mean, a conception created in the mind of relatively lowly evolved human creatures based on contemporary limited scientific understanding. When the universe was about the size of a human being, about 10-35 seconds after the BB beginning, what came before it? What do you think was the cause of this event? Where did the energy come from?

I am not knocking science, I am calling it as it is.
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What energy? Tell me do you know the total energy of the universe?
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
metis said:
"Nice" stereotypes, and I have no clue how "Politics" supposedly fits into your scheme of things on this.
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Unfortunately scientific research depends on financial funding, where does most of the money come from if not governments. The people in power will fund and/or defund how they see fit, politics can and does have bias. If theologians got to make the scientific funding decisions, the science would turn out different than say, if atheists got to decide funding priorities. In any case, this is not heaven, science as it is deals with the material world, and as Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world".

So the Kingdom of which Jesus spoke is not the 5% observable BB universe, where and how is the spiritual kingdom to be found?
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
You got the quote wrong. He said 10^15 Gev at about 10^-35 secs after the Big Bang began.. Your amount of energy was off by a factor of a trillion. But now just for fun, do you think that you can translate that amount of energy into mass?
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That's what I said, what's this trillion off?
Whatever mass equivalent, energy can not be created or destroyed.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
No, you did not say that. You said 1015. That is about one trillionth of 10^15. You need to go back to 5th grade. That is when scientific notation is first taught.
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The 1015 Gev is meant to represent 10^15 Gev, as if you did not know. And btw, if energy can not be created or destroyed, where was it at 10^-100 seconds?
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
If you can't own up to such an obvious mistake as that then you will never admit that you were ever wrong.
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You didn't answer the question, I suspect you are trying to make a lame distraction so as to avoid admitting you do not know the answer.

ps, you missed that I also typed 10 -35 second in that same post. :D
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ben Dhyan said:
You didn't answer the question, I suspect you are trying to make a lame distraction so as to avoid admitting you do not know the answer.
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When you refuse to acknowledge obvious errors of yours you no longer get to demand answers. Part of participating in a debate one needs to be an honest interlocutor.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
When you refuse to acknowledge obvious errors of yours you no longer get to demand answers. Part of participating in a debate one needs to be an honest interlocutor.
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There is little to explain other than to tell you that I gave you the correct answer which you were not aware of. until I provided, thanks to Ethan Seigal. You are now so hard trying not to have to face not being able to answer the question.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ben Dhyan said:
There is little to explain other than to tell you that I gave you the correct answer which you were not aware of. until I provided, thanks to Ethan Seigal. You are now so hard trying not to have to face not being able to answer the question.
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No, your answer was not correct and you got it wrong. You made a fifth grade level mistake. That does not look good for you.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
No, your answer was not correct and you got it wrong. You made a fifth grade level mistake. That does not look good for you.
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Haha, how could I get it wrong, I was the one who found the answer to your question and gave you a link to it. You checked and saw what I saw, the answer given by Ethan Seigel. Did you even know the answer to your question before you asked me?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ben Dhyan said:
Haha, how could I get it wrong, I was the one who found the answer to your question and gave you a link to it. You checked and saw what I saw, the answer given by Ethan Seigel. Did you even know the answer to your question before you asked me?
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No, that was not the question that I asked you. You did not even read your article. You got the wrong answer and you posted it improperly too. you were off by a trillion in your answer.
 
W

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Ben Dhyan said:
Unfortunately scientific research depends on financial funding, where does most of the money come from if not governments. The people in power will fund and/or defund how they see fit, politics can and does have bias. If theologians got to make the scientific funding decisions, the science would turn out different than say, if atheists got to decide funding priorities. In any case, this is not heaven, science as it is deals with the material world, and as Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world".

So the Kingdom of which Jesus spoke is not the 5% observable BB universe, where and how is the spiritual kingdom to be found?
Click to expand...

The easiest way to explain this logically, is the BB universe is based on space-time, where space and time are connected and act as one. The photon of energy has wavelength; space, and frequency; time, connected. The question is, what came before space-time; before our inertial universe, and also will continue to exist both during and even after space-time existed?

The simple solution is dissociated space-time, where space and time, are separate variables, that can each act as independent variables. If one can move is space, without the constraint of time, one could be everywhere, at the same time. This is a classic attribute of God called omnipresence. If you could move in time independent of space, the laws of physics would be the same in all space-time references. This is classically called omniscience.

Classically, God is also associated with light, which is another way of saying God is in a reference at the speed of light. If we apply Einstein's theory of Special Relativity to God, at the speed of light, he would see our space-time universe contracted to a point-instant. This makes it easy to be omnipresent, since a point-instant allows you to be everywhere, by default.

Separated space and separated time would be consistent with a spiritual type of realm; without mass, since mass is a part of space-time and cannot move at the speed of light. There is a natural barrier between the realms. Separated space and time is also consistent with the classic attributes of God.

All God would have had to do to create our space-time universe would be to cause some vectors of independent space and independent time to meet at a junction; form energy and space-time. Since independent space and independent time has far more options; infinite combinations, than does space-time, space-time is driven by the second law. Independent space and independent time implies infinite complexity; infinite entropy. The divine realm is leading us back to its source, via the second law; change is inevitable, with independent space and time the potential source for the second law.

If you look at the forces of nature, they all are connected to accelerations which is d/t/t. Based on the units, acceleration is space-time; d-t, plus extra time potential; t This extra time potential comes from space-time floating, in an infinite dimensional sea of independent space and independent time. The impact of the other realm, is to add time potential to space-time; forces of the universes, as well as the accelerated expansion of the universe; acceleration of an acceleration of space-time; d/t/t/t.

This acceleration of an acceleration; expanding universe, suggest we need to model time as 3-D, just as we do space (x y z). Time should be 3-D; (t1,t2,t3). T1 is connected to velocity and space-time, T2 is connected to acceleration and force, while t3 is connected to the expansion of the universe. The 3-D time vector can define each unique place in time.

Proof of independent space and independent time came be found within the human imagination. In our imagination, we can think of scenarios that are not possible in space-time; perpetual motion. For example, I can imagine a bridge made of el dente spaghetti. This is not possible in space-time, since the laws of physics would cause shear and collapse. However, if I could move in space, independent of time, so no forces can act; force needs time to act, I could layout the bridge.

The brain and frontal lobe, are part of space-time, but appear to be able to move information in ways that can exceed the laws of physics; space-time, more in line with independent space and time. When the Atheists claim God is imaginary, they also, unintentionally, say God is perceived via a matrix where information can be organized in ways, that mimicks space and time not connected. Faith is the belief in things not seen in space-time, but in space separated from time; eternal.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
wellwisher said:
The easiest way to explain this logically, is the BB universe is based on space-time, where space and time are connected and act as one. The photon of energy has wavelength; space, and frequency; time, connected. The question is, what came before space-time; before our inertial universe, and also will continue to exist both during and even after space-time existed?

The simple solution is dissociated space-time, where space and time, are separate variables, that can each act as independent variables. If one can move is space, without the constraint of time, one could be everywhere, at the same time. This is a classic attribute of God called omnipresence. If you could move in time independent of space, the laws of physics would be the same in all space-time references. This is classically called omniscience.

Classically, God is also associated with light, which is another way of saying God is in a reference at the speed of light. If we apply Einstein's theory of Special Relativity to God, at the speed of light, he would see our space-time universe contracted to a point-instant. This makes it easy to be omnipresent, since a point-instant allows you to be everywhere, by default.

Separated space and separated time would be consistent with a spiritual type of realm; without mass, since mass is a part of space-time and cannot move at the speed of light. There is a natural barrier between the realms. Separated space and time is also consistent with the classic attributes of God.

All God would have had to do to create our space-time universe would be to cause some vectors of independent space and independent time to meet at a junction; form energy and space-time. Since independent space and independent time has far more options; infinite combinations, than does space-time, space-time is driven by the second law. Independent space and independent time implies infinite complexity; infinite entropy. The divine realm is leading us back to its source, via the second law; change is inevitable, with independent space and time the potential source for the second law.

If you look at the forces of nature, they all are connected to accelerations which is d/t/t. Based on the units, acceleration is space-time; d-t, plus extra time potential; t This extra time potential comes from space-time floating, in an infinite dimensional sea of independent space and independent time. The impact of the other realm, is to add time potential to space-time; forces of the universes, as well as the accelerated expansion of the universe; acceleration of an acceleration of space-time; d/t/t/t.

This acceleration of an acceleration; expanding universe, suggest we need to model time as 3-D, just as we do space (x y z). Time should be 3-D; (t1,t2,t3). T1 is connected to velocity and space-time, T2 is connected to acceleration and force, while t3 is connected to the expansion of the universe. The 3-D time vector can define each unique place in time.

Proof of independent space and independent time came be found within the human imagination. In our imagination, we can think of scenarios that are not possible in space-time; perpetual motion. For example, I can imagine a bridge made of el dente spaghetti. This is not possible in space-time, since the laws of physics would cause shear and collapse. However, if I could move in space, independent of time, so no forces can act; force needs time to act, I could layout the bridge.

The brain and frontal lobe, are part of space-time, but appear to be able to move information in ways that can exceed the laws of physics; space-time, more in line with independent space and time. When the Atheists claim God is imaginary, they also, unintentionally, say God is perceived via a matrix where information can be organized in ways, that mimicks space and time not connected. Faith is the belief in things not seen in space-time, but in space separated from time; eternal.
Click to expand...
Now that is a post I will certainly need some time to digest and contemplate, for I must admit I have had a different understanding, but I will ponder your view more. I do thank you for your explanation, it is an excellent work and I hope to learn from it wellwisher.
 
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