Leaving RF

[Kolibri]

In light of this article Question Box — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY I will be leaving RF within the next few days. The direction given is put in bold print and the reasons given are solid ones.

I can reason that blocking from sight the posts from those disfellowshipped to protect their social vacuum (so as to not undermine Jehovah's loving discipline for them) as one way to comply w/o leaving RF. (1 Corinthians 5:5; 1 Timothy 1:20) I can also see blocking those determined to destroy my precious faith - especially those that left us because they were 'not of our sort' as a means to that end as well. (1 John 2:19)

However, If I died today, could my tombstone truthfully say:

He did not associate with deceitful men,
And he avoided those who hide what they are.
(Psalms 26:4)

We are reminded at 1 Corinthians 1:26 that among true Christians there are "not many wise by human standards". (footnote) Do I see myself above being duped by someone that sees themselves as the cat in a cat and mouse game? Have I ever felt like someone was stringing me along to see how long they can get me to talk with them when they know it would damage my relationship with Jehovah to do so?

I have also been considering 2 Timothy 2:23-26.

"Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all...."

Before considering the linked article I had already decided that I needed to further refine how and where I would post here. Some threads have lived too long and I had a share in keeping them alive.

Where there is no wood, the fire goes out,
And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases.
- Proverbs 26:20

[Avoid] the scornful man,
And contention will disappear;
Disputes and insults will cease.
- Proverbs 22:10

What brought me to the conclusion that I need to set a time limit and leave RF instead of just modifying my use of it was the part in the article just prior to the bold printed direction. The RF is not country specific. Can I say I am not seeking out people physically located in countries where online communication is monitored by hostile local authorities? Do I want to be responsible for those hostile authorities to use something I posted to fuel their hatred for Jehovah's pure worship and give them their excuse ramp up their acts of intolerance?

I've posted this in both under Religious Debate for everyone to see today, and in the Jehovah's Witnesses DIR so that it won't disappear quickly as not many new threads are opened there.

 

[Kolibri]

Im not, nor have ever been, a JW. I think that some think I am/was/ nope.

I never thought you were. Nor have I have ever felt like you saw me as a mouse to be played with.
Even so, the presence of those that are/do would only cause me to modify my use of the forum. My reason for ceasing after a short time is this:

What brought me to the conclusion that I need to set a time limit and leave RF instead of just modifying my use of it was the part in the article just prior to the bold printed direction. The RF is not country specific. Can I say I am not seeking out people physically located in countries where online communication is monitored by hostile local authorities? Do I want to be responsible for those hostile authorities to use something I posted to fuel their hatred for Jehovah's pure worship and give them their excuse ramp up their acts of intolerance?

 

[Lyndon]

I really enjoyed and learned from our discussions about Daniel, and I developed a newfound respect for Jehovah's Witnesses from dialogueing with you and other JW's, you will be missed

 

[Nietzsche]

What brought me to the conclusion that I need to set a time limit and leave RF instead of just modifying my use of it was the part in the article just prior to the bold printed direction. The RF is not country specific. Can I say I am not seeking out people physically located in countries where online communication is monitored by hostile local authorities?

That's not quite how laws work. Only in the most backward regions of the world, where power, let alone the internet is scarce, is that a serious problem. Otherwise local authorities don't care about what you read so much as what you say. Look at Smart_Guy. He lives in Saudi Arabia. Extremely repressive and wretched government there. But the law leaves him alone because going after him for what he reads is bad PR. Now if he were to start going all anti-Islam and such...yes.

But 99% of places simply don't have the resources or simply care enough to go after someone because they glanced at a JW's post on a forum.

Do I want to be responsible for those hostile authorities to use something I posted to fuel their hatred for Jehovah's pure worship and give them their excuse ramp up their acts of intolerance?

If that's what you're worried about I suggest you start burning books and pamphlets too.

I mean this in the nicest way possible; you aren't that important. As in, you yourself are not going to cause anyone to crack down on JWs or such. You don't have that kind of authority or pull.

 

[Kolibri]

I may not be, but hundreds of thousands are at risk. We have a larger presence in lands that are actively hostile towards us then many realize.

Customs Officials Block Bibles From Entering Russia | JW.ORG Legal News

Following direction won't hurt those that want to find answers. Besides us humans, the angels are aiding in connecting people to sources whereby they can hear the good news.

"And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, (or in midair; overhead.") and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue (or "language.") and people. He was saying in a loud voice: 'Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgement by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs (or "fountains.") of water." - Revelation 14:6-7

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm a bit confused. Is the reason a worry that some hypothetical repressive government might persecute people reading about the JW's creed by way of the Internet?

 

[Koldo]

I don't know what to say. This is messed up in so many ways.

 

[savagewind]

I'm a bit confused. Is the reason a worry that some hypothetical repressive government might persecute people reading about the JW's creed by way of the Internet?

I think the governing body who decides what the JWs should believe might be using fear to control the people from going on the internet. It is a fact that the gb keep some things secret, for instance, they keep secret the many civil suits filed against the Watchtower when they solicit funds from their people.

 

[Laika]

What brought me to the conclusion that I need to set a time limit and leave RF instead of just modifying my use of it was the part in the article just prior to the bold printed direction. The RF is not country specific. Can I say I am not seeking out people physically located in countries where online communication is monitored by hostile local authorities? Do I want to be responsible for those hostile authorities to use something I posted to fuel their hatred for Jehovah's pure worship and give them their excuse ramp up their acts of intolerance?

Regrettably, if someone is looking to find fault, you need not provide them with one. On many occassions people will manufacture one to suit their prejudices and preconceptions. It is a shameful thing we do as people because we prefer the comfort of what we think we know rather than admitting we are wrong. The desire to retreat and withdraw from pain and rejection is a natural one. it gives me a reason to consider walking away from RF and it flutuates with my depression. For now I am content that- what little I do add is making a small difference and that maybe for being hear it will give people a reason to think twice and question their prejudices, as well as providing a platform for questioning my own.

Being true to your beliefs is hard, particuarly when they are not widely shared and are sterotyped. You are not to blame for someone else's prejudices. You don't have to provide people with provocation, as more often than not, they will find one of their own. This is as true for those in uniform as those without them. It the from this that we can learn to "love thy enemy" because you realise they don't hate you, but they hate themselves- their own feelings of weakness, wretchedness and futility and take it out on others who seem more confident, more fulfilled; they attack those who seem to handle the uncertianties and challanges of life better because they find it threatening and it reminds them of how inwardly impoverished they feel.

I hope you find the respect and fulfillment in your beliefs that you wish for and I more than understand why you'd want to walk away. I hesitate however because sometimes when others want you to be silent, that is the moment to speak up and be heard.

 

[Kolibri]

I'm a bit confused. Is the reason a worry that some hypothetical repressive government might persecute people reading about the JW's creed by way of the Internet?

No, not hypothetical, and not not just those that are reading. In lands where the work is banned or restricted, Jehovah's Witnesses still have the commission to preach, but they have to do so discretely knowing that there have been 'students' that have proven later to be government spies. This results in imprisonments and often being treated as if we were the worst of criminals. It is our spiritual brothers and sisters that get the brunt of the hostilities.

A 'walk' down the offical jw.org newsroom gives a bit of insight of what is going on in some lands where the work is merely restricted and not banned outright. For obvious reasons, lands where there is an outright ban are not reported on to protect those actively worshipping by preaching and meeting together.

Jehovah’s Witnesses | News | JW.ORG

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

No, not hypothetical, and not not just those that are reading. In lands where the work is banned or restricted, Jehovah's Witnesses still have the commission to preach, but they have to do so discretely knowing that there have been 'students' that have proven later to be government spies. This results in imprisonments and often being treated as if we were the worst of criminals. It is our spiritual brothers the get the brunt of the hostilities.

A 'walk' down the offical jw.org newsroom give a bit of insight of what is going on in some lands where the work is merely restricted and not banned outright. For obvious reasons, lands where there is an outright ban are not reported on to protect those active worshipping by preaching and meeting together there.

Jehovah’s Witnesses | News | JW.ORG

Nietzsche and the others have the right of it. This is not nearly as big an issue as the Watchtower are making it out to be. They're just stoking your fear by magnifying threats that are not a problem for you. Basing your actions off what you're afraid might happen due to something you type or read is paranoia - plain and simple. And it allows them to stoke the phony persecution complex that keeps you cowed, quiet and unquestioning.

If the Watchtower is really so worried about what might happen in relation to a nation's government then why are they operating anywhere at all? This is about control; controlling who you interact with and what types of information & questions you're exposed to.

 

[savagewind]

To keep them fearful is to keep them dependent.

 

[Lyndon]

You guys are ridiculous, imagine how Jehovah's Witnesses would be treated in Iran, have you heard of how the Bahai are treated, Kolobri is not making this up, there are definitely places in the world were professing to be a JW can get you locked up.

 

[savagewind]

You guys are ridiculous, imagine how Jehovah's Witnesses would be treated in Iran, have you heard of how the Bahai are treated, Kolobri is not making this up, there are definitely places in the world were professing to be a JW can get you locked up.

If he is not in Iran what can he do other than what is being done on JW.org?
JW.org is on the internet.
The governing body of JWs are saying that he might post something that can make trouble for someone. What might that be?

 

[savagewind]

I suspect the reason for ordering JWs off the internet might be because instruction is a little bit different country to country even though they are all ordered to be of one mind or suffer loss. The governing body do not want them communicating with each other for the reason inconsistencies might be discovered. Perhaps?

 

[Nietzsche]

You guys are ridiculous, imagine how Jehovah's Witnesses would be treated in Iran, have you heard of how the Bahai are treated, Kolobri is not making this up, there are definitely places in the world were professing to be a JW can get you locked up.

Yes. Iran persecutes JWs. They persecute a lot of people. But Kolob isn't in Iran, and JWs in Iran I hope are smart enough to keep things on the down-low. This 'order' simply makes no sense.

 

[Kolibri]

Nietzsche and the others have the right of it. This is not nearly as big an issue as the Watchtower are making it out to be. They're just stoking your fear by magnifying threats that are not a problem for you. Basing your actions off what you're afraid might happen due to something you type or read is paranoia - plain and simple. And it allows them to stoke the phony persecution complex that keeps you cowed, quiet and unquestioning.

If the Watchtower is really so worried about what might happen in relation to a nation's government then why are they operating anywhere at all? This is about control; controlling who you interact with and what types of information & questions you're exposed to.

That seems rather off to me. The direction in bold was regarding the physical location of the person I am witnessing too in relation to myself. I can just as easily come across the same information from people physically located within my own country of residence if I chose too.

I find this to be not a matter of what is a huge problem now as a problem regarding what is soon to be.

We know that soon people will get swept away in believing a significant cry of "Peace and Security" and that shortly after the world's governments will turn on organized religion so intensely and completely that it will seem as if "no flesh will be saved." (1 Thessalonians 5:1-5; Matthew 24:21-22; Revelation 18:21-23) The scene of this world is soon to change.

I am not responding out of dread, but out of faith. The direction is made to protect the interests of my brothers and sisters that live in other lands. I find that request reasonable.

 

[savagewind]

A person in Iran or in any anti-Christain country is able to access JW.org. Correct? Why doesn't accessing it not make trouble but communicating with a person make trouble?

 

[savagewind]

Before the internet, there was an instance of a profound difference in the way the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses handled problems in two different countries. Maybe their order to avoid the internet is in preparation for something like that again.

The different standards applied to brothers in Malawi, Mexico and the Oath of allegiance

 

[LuisDantas]

I, too, find the dangers overblown if not outright fictional.

I suppose the insistence on the necessity of preaching is not helping me in finding sympathy for the efforts.