nutshell
Well-Known Member
And why won't we make them? Because God knows we wont.
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LDS View on Free Will and an Omniscient God
- Thread starter nutshell
- Start date
And why won't we make them? Because God knows we wont.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
So God's knowledge is exerting a force over us that forces us to make certain choices?
We won't make those choices because we will choose not to make them.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
does anyoen not understand what i said?
It is the only reasonable explanation....
in the D&C the place where god resides is a "Great Urim and Thummim" this is known to show the past, present and future. anyone who has been through the temple knows this as well.
It is the Simplist, and most plausable explanation as to the nature of an "All knowing God"
It is the only reasonable explanation....
in the D&C the place where god resides is a "Great Urim and Thummim" this is known to show the past, present and future. anyone who has been through the temple knows this as well.
It is the Simplist, and most plausable explanation as to the nature of an "All knowing God"
madhatter85
Transhumanist
They aren't though. and where they heck would you get that idea? he does not control our actions based on his knowledge. Please tell me where you got the idea from?
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
I asgree with you. All things are present before God. The future past and present God can see them all.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
that's what i said.........have you been through the temple? he can see them in the sea of fire and glass.... the place where God resides.
Francine
Well-Known Member
One time God had to come down out of heaven to see what the humans working on the Tower of Babel were up to.
Gen. 11:[5] And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
DeepShadow
White Crow
See my posts onthe previous page. God's knowledge doesn't conctol our actions. Rather, our actions control what He knows about the future.
Scott C.
Just one guy
We're in an area none of us comprehend, in my humble opinion. I have trouble with the idea that God can predict my future behavior because He knows me so well. If I am predictable, then it's not possible for me to change my behavior from what I have done in the past. At least this poses a logical problem to my little brain.
On the other hand, what if God does not predict the future? What if He just sees it, as we see the present. There is a big difference between PREDICTING what we will do and OBSERVING what we are NOW doing in the future, as if it were present. This solves my logical problem of predictability, but it opens up another unfathomable concept, that God lives in the future as much as He does the present. That's also impossible to comprehend.
Elder Holland's last conference address says:
"These various evolutions and iterations of creedsand others to come over the centuriesdeclared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time."
Is Elder Holland stating that it's a false doctrine to believe that God lives "outside space and time"? Usually when people say that the past, present, and future are all before God at the same time, it's because He lives outside of time.
These type of philosophical or logical questions rattle around in my head from time to time, but I can only speculate and then realize that I probably have no capacity to understand such questions of eternity. I take comfort in knowing that God is "all knowing" of the past, present, and future, and yet I have agency to choose as I will. I can become something I have never been in the past, something better, if I will it to be and put forth the effort.
nutshell
Well-Known Member
This is actually the best response so far, I just wanted to see where the others would go.
DeepShadow
White Crow
Fair enough!
I just wanted to make sure my responses hadn't been lost in the shuffle.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
I thought I had said something similar to this earlier. But I absolutly agree with this.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Yes I have been through the temple. About four years ago was my first time.
DeepShadow
White Crow
"Controlled" has additional connotations, so it's probably not the best word. God sees what we do, therefore our actions "control" what he sees. Like a witness to a car wreck, the scene dictates what the witness sees. That's not to say the wreck is "controlling" the witness.
So in that sense, we're technically not controlling God, only what He sees.
Francine
Well-Known Member
Not only possible, it was a major plot point in the book of Helamon, and one of the things I found exceedingly controversial when I read the BoM (but I won't debate it here). Helaman 10:10 And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass.
nutshell
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting interpretation. I hadn't thought of it like that before. The traditional explanation of Helaman 10 is that great things can be done with the priesthood (such as sealing and miracles). However, these miracles will only occur if it's God's will. So, we aren't controlling God, we're only furthering his wishes.
Scott C.
Just one guy
Does anybody agree with me that this is fun and interesting to talk about, but it's not really possible for us to comprehend how God does what He does? I can't even begin to understand how God keeps track of billions of His children at the same time, much less understand how He knows the future without negating free will. I don't want to sound like I'm being critical of the thread, I just want to know if everyone agrees that were just having fun with speculation and not actually solving one of the mysteries of godlines. I once started a thread called "why is there something rather than nothing?", which was kind of in the same category of the unknowable. What do you think?