Ladies on the forum, do you consider yourself to be a feminist?

[Koldo]

How would that scenario play out any differently if he was accused of pedophilia (edit: by a man or a woman) instead of beating his wife? I don't think the problem you describe is about gender.

Interestingly, on Brazil, we have a specific law for women who are victims of domestic violence.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Both male and female privilege exist.

Instead of thinking which exists more and forget aot the other one, we could fight both.

Oh dear, are we dancing close to false equivalency here?

 

[Me Myself]

Do you see examples of male privilege?



I'm not getting what you're saying here at all.



I have to ask again, do you see examples of male privilege as a result of patriarchal paradigms? (Alliteration, whoot!)

Oh yes, they exist of course. There are examples of male privilege I have no doubt a lot of them exist all around the world.

There is also female privilege of course.

I assume there is male privileges in "more" areas or circumstances or that they tend to be in "more serious" areas, but I cannot honestly know which soecific areas which specific countries, in which time frames, etc.

What worries me is if no one is trying to find and combat female privilege too. No sex should have a privilage above the other on my view, we should combat both forms of injustice.

My problem is that I dont expect feminism to actively fight against women's privilege, and I often hear resistance from other cuntries when it comes to having specific movements to fight this problem.

 

[Me Myself]

Oh dear, are we dancing close to false equivalency here?

I dont know, I am simply suspicious of promoting a movement that focuses only on the priveleges of men over women without taking care of e privileges of women over men AND at the same time putting up controversy of a movement that is the other way around.

Fighting privileges because of gender should always be okay. I dont expect feminism to fight female privilege (although some radicals my support it) but I would at least expect that they wodnt be against movements that fight against the other side of unequality.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Oh yes, they exist of course. There are examples of male privilege I have no doubt a lot of them exist all around the world.

There is also female privilege of course.

I assume there is male privileges in "more" areas or circumstances or that they tend to be in "more serious" areas, but I cannot honestly know which soecific areas which specific countries, in which time frames, etc.

What worries me is if no one is trying to find and combat female privilege too. No sex should have a privilage above the other on my view, we should combat both forms of injustice.

My problem is that I dont expect feminism to actively fight against women's privilege, and I often hear resistance from other cuntries when it comes to having specific movements to fight this problem.

What do you think causes this male/female dualistic social stratification?

 

[Me Myself]

What do you think causes this male/female dualistic social stratification?

What caused it FIRST is unimportant now, but what perpetuates it now is basically having little that fights the already established culture.

I can see feminism fights froone side, but I dont see fight from the other side, and that is the part I think its worrying.

Most worryng of all I think is e fact that eole are completely obllivious on how sexism is possible and alife against men.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am fighting against putting blame on "patriarchy" instead of "unequality" , and solution in "feminism" instead of "equality".

Do you understand the problem when it comes from comunication to polarize it that way specifically?

You say that patriarchy causes problems to both genders, well, then lets not associate it primarily with one of them. You say feminism tries to make both genders be equal, well then lets not associate it to just one of them.

The term "patriarchy" doesn't mean that all men are advantaged; it means that the ruling class - to which most men don't belong either - is mostly male. It's not "if you're a man, you're in charge"... it's "you're not going to be in charge if you're not a man."

I could see feminism as a sort of branch of humanism, as long as there is a similar branch focused on the male side of the unequalities, as you have said do exist.

This makes no sense. Just in terms of the impact of the problem and the number of people affected, discrimination against women is more of an issue than discrimination against men. Treating the problems as equal is disproportionate to the issue and, IMO, attempts to minimize how serious an issue discrimination against women is.

 

[Me Myself]

The term "patriarchy" doesn't mean that all men are advantaged; it means that the ruling class - to which most men don't belong either - is mostly male. It's not "if you're a man, you're in charge"... it's "you're not going to be in charge if you're not a man."


This makes no sense. Just in terms of the impact of the problem and the number of people affected, discrimination against women is more of an issue than discrimination against men. Treating the problems as equal is disproportionate to the issue and, IMO, attempts to minimize how serious an issue discrimination against women is.

So any movement in favor of male rights is equal to discrimination against women?

AND I SHOULDNT BE WORRIED?!

 

[dust1n]

Is this statement sexist or is it hypocritical ?

Neither. I noticed I didn't get a response to that other reply I left ya.

I'm not sure that straw is going to be able to hold you up much longer.

 

[Horrorble]

And that's part of the problem. People refuse to acknowledge male privilege or white privilege because it forces all of us to face a very uncomfortable notion, that we as a whole help to perpetuate an unjust system.

I think both men and women need to change and fight the inequality together.


agreed

I seriously doubt the authenticity of the story in the video itself, tbh.

I've seen videos of her on YouTube before, she makes quite a few videos about how awful feminism was in the 80's. whatever.
I think she is probably telling the truth about some things, just because Dworkin mentions a confrontation she had with political lesbians at a meeting and they were asking her if she was bi sexual and if she slept with men in a hostile way. I don't think Dworkin ever specifically says her sexual orientation but judging by her writings she was bisexual.
I would give you a quote of the exact incident but I can't remember what book it was in and what essay.

 

[Me Myself]

Neither. I noticed I didn't get a response to that other reply I left ya.

I'm not sure that straw is going to be able to hold you up much longer.

I replied that as a joke, but technically those are the two options. either you are telling everyone (includijg women) what they should or should not do or you are just telling men they cant. I knew what you meant though, which is why it was just a joke on a technicality .

About your "other answer" I just remember a giant sign of straws, if there was anytng else there that was meaningful I do apologize as it escaped me.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What caused it FIRST is unimportant now, but what perpetuates it now is basically having little that fights the already established culture.

I can see feminism fights froone side, but I dont see fight from the other side, and that is the part I think its worrying.

Most worryng of all I think is e fact that eole are completely obllivious on how sexism is possible and alife against men.

If you cannot identify the source, you're doing little but chasing shadows.

Look closer.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So any movement in favor of male rights is equal to discrimination against women?

AND I SHOULDNT BE WORRIED?!

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not talking about "any movement in favour of male rights"; I'm talking about efforts to portray "masculism" as equivalent to feminism.

 

[Me Myself]

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not talking about "any movement in favour of male rights"; I'm talking about efforts to portray "masculism" as equivalent to feminism.

Hey, put the name you want I said already.

We have a movement that fights inequality to women and fights male privilege.

I think is reasonable to have a movement that fights inequality towards males and fig female privilege.

Didnt you say it would be discriminative to ask for such a movement?

 

[dawny0826]

No. I asked for examples of feminist positions that could also be misandrist. You gave feelings that could be present in any person's brain. There isn't any that I have found that hates men but seeks gender equality.

Just as some folks attach a negative stigma to feminism, I think that some people wrongfully attach the same type of stigma to misandry. MIsandry isn't an ugly thing unless one actively discriminates against men or boys.

One could envy men or boys and resent that they don't have the same status and as such utilize that resentment to be more effective in their push for equality.

I see misandry as being an effective fuel within feminism. Not to imply at all that feminists are necessarily misandrist or vice versa. But, I do understand that one could be both.

The misandrist could be an ugly, discriminative personna. The misandrist could also be a person who simply harbors feelings of dislike or hatred.

Feminism is greatly comprised of action, but on the individual level, it's all about mindset.

 

[Me Myself]

If you cannot identify the source, you're doing little but chasing shadows.

Look closer.

I remeber I had a teacher that talked about this a long while ago. She said we often blame the males for discrimination against women, but we dont see that "we" (women) play a very good part too. She gave examles from her life of her mother or friends promoting stereotyped roles as DA roles for said gender. I thought she was quite inspirational AND that her speech was empowering towards women. She was a very passionate happy and ascertive woman (the kind I tend to love ).

I also often complain to my female friends when they usw thhe term "puta" (spanish equivalent of "sl ut" ) to talk about other women enjoying their sexualities. The way I see it, the source of e issue is we as humans that dont speak up and/or perpetuate this things. Both male and female on both female and male privilege.

Technically, the causes will be many not just one, but I am reading you, by all means enlighten me

 

[dust1n]

I replied that as a joke, but technically those are the two options. either you are telling everyone (includijg women) what they should or should not do or you are just telling men they cant. I knew what you meant though, which is why it was just a joke on a technicality .

About your "other answer" I just remember a giant sign of straws, if there was anytng else there that was meaningful I do apologize as it escaped me.

This was a joke?

Then those women did a great job getting their rights (which is awesome ) and a terrible job grounding their movement to stay egualitarian by their concepts's names

Its normal that they didnt do it on purpose, they grew wi the same cultural bagage that they were trying to fight.

So the discrepancy of the word 'feminism' is over then? That's what we were talking about, no?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hey, put the name you want I said already.

I don't understand this sentence. What are you trying to say?

We have a movement that fights inequality to women and fights male privilege.

I think is reasonable to have a movement that fights inequality towards males and fig female privilege.

Didnt you say it would be discriminative to ask for such a movement?

Let me put it this way:

- what is the magnitude of the problems of inequality for women and male privilege? How many people are harmed by this, and to what degree?

- what is the magnitude of the problems of inequality for men and female privilege? How many people are harmed by this, and to what degree?

Unless you think these problems are equal in magnitude (and if you do, I'd ask you why you think this), treating them equally is illogical and inappropriate. When you keep insisting that they should be treated equally, I begin to suspect that there's some other agenda going on here.

 

[Me Myself]

This was a joke?



So the discrepancy of the word 'feminism' is over then? That's what we were talking about, no?

Te jokke was the specific post you replied to when saying "neither"

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Just as some folks attach a negative stigma to feminism, I think that some people wrongfully attach the same type of stigma to misandry. MIsandry isn't an ugly thing unless one actively discriminates against men or boys.

One could envy men or boys and resent that they don't have the same status and as such utilize that resentment to be more effective in their push for equality.

I see misandry as being an effective fuel within feminism. Not to imply at all that feminists are necessarily misandrist or vice versa.

The misandrist could be an ugly, discriminative personna. The misandrist could also be a person who simply harbors feelings of dislike or hatred.

Feminism is greatly comprised of action, but on the individual level, it's all about mindset.

I think that's where you and I part ways. I don't see misandry associated with penis envy (so to speak). I see it as a perspective of men as an entire class associated with something inherently ugly, violent, unevolved, etc., and expresses it personally and politically.

Where we agree is that feminism is a movement, but I fail to see how misandry can fuel the movement outside of seeking equality, but to diminish or defeat males in some way. Dunno.