Try not to sin? Try? So the repeat rapist who is actually trying is saved, right? I have a lot of difficulty with this belief in your religions, but if it works, well, fine I guess.
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L U S T
- Thread starter Skwim
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Try not to sin? Try? So the repeat rapist who is actually trying is saved, right? I have a lot of difficulty with this belief in your religions, but if it works, well, fine I guess.
arthra
Baha'i
My belief is that yes we have natural cravings within us.. but they need to be channeled properly through say the institution of marriage. So the Bible allows for the pro-generation of the species.....
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,...
Genesis 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
Now consider how "lust" is used..
5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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We see here that the works of the flesh which is associated with lust are actions that attack the social fabric.. while the "fruit of the Spirit" have associated with them restraint, kindness and temperance... virtues that are associated with social bonding.
james bond
Well-Known Member
This is a difficult question as US society blames the men while the Middle Eastern society blames the women. Probably the guys talking about poking their eyes out are Americans. Just today, I saw this anti-rape clothing for US women, so they are taking precautions but not responsibility. They still can wear skimpy clothing.
Sin is always a choice. It's one thing to have an inappropriate sexual thought, it is another to wilfully indulge the imagination with that thought. As for plucking one's eyes out, it is called hyperbole. Jesus is emphasising a point, which is the worthlessness of worldly gain at the cost of eternity.
The fault is your own. Sexuality is god-given, but its misuse is an act of human will.
The sin is not in and of itself finding someone attractive. It is not per se the desire for sexual intimacy. Both of these are good and normal feelings and God fully intends most people to find the fulfilment of these desires within marriage. (To the extent any worldly desire can actually be fulfilled). Lust is the inordinate desire for sexual gratification. It is the wilful choice to entertain that passion inappropriately.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
Which was my point when I said, "Matthew doesn't say it's bad to lust and act on it. NO! He says lusting is simply bad in of itself."
But it's far, far more than worthlessness. It's deserving of earthly suffering. Suffering we're suppose to inflict on ourselves no less.
Not talking about mere sexuality, but L-U-S-T. The god-given craving for sexual gratification. He gave us this craving and now Jesus tells us that if we do it we should tear our eye out and throw it way.
Lust is not a choice. Do you really think people stop and say to themselves, "Hey that's a really hot looking guy over there. I think I'll choose to lust after him? No, lust is an autonomic response that's inherent in one's character. Character that god gave us.
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Lust is a conscious act. Lust is not simply a happenstance feeling of sexual desire, it is the choice to indulge the imagination with inappropriate sexual thoughts and feelings. You hold responsibility for the conscious content of your own mind.
You must surely be smart enough to understand that the passage isn't literally telling you to pluck out your eyes. It's called hyperbole.
Did you read my post?
Lust isn't a god-given craving, it is the wilful entertainment of inappropriate sexual desire. You choose to fall into lust. The weakness which makes us prone to lust (or any sin) is a result of the corruption of our god-given natures by original sin. This sinful tendency isn't a choice, but neither is it a personal sin.
The problem isn't our nature given to us by God, it's the fact that we no longer have it in its original purity. Therefore we have an extra burden of responsibility to keep our passions in check. This is of course impossible to do without the grace of God, which is why frequent prayer is so essential to the Christian life.
It is a choice. Of course no one thinks "I am going to lust after this person now." But you absolutely do in fact have the ability to direct the content of your conscious thoughts. You do it all the time when you choose to concentrate on a task or topic. (Such as posting on the internet). It's one thing to see a pretty girl. Girls are pretty and there's no sin in acknowledging that. But you absolutely are able to stop yourself from fantasising a sexual act with that girl, and instead move your thoughts onto something else. (Such as God for instance).
Lust isn't the instance temptation itself. That is where your factitious misunderstanding lies.
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Jonathan Ainsley Bain
Logical Positivist
Most sexual activity not directed specifically at reproduction is about power and control, actually.
Hawk Flint
Member
Hyperboles, such as tearing one's eye out, are not meant to be taken literally. Christ used a hyperbole with a specific lesson in it: If one thing causes you to do evil, cut it off (as in, get rid of it at any cost). Blind people can still lust after all.
According to the bible, it is wrong to lust if it is directed to a woman (or man) or a thought of one. Though, while it is not specified exactly whether or not it is wrong if it is directed at one's spouse, Galatians 5:19 says that lust is an act of the flesh (the flesh is the sinfulness of man). So if you are, say, at work, and entertaining thoughts about your spouse that aren't exactly pure and you are lusting with that, then it is probably a sin. However, this is a matter of some debate. Oh. Wait...
james bond
Well-Known Member
This is key.
Liberals always claim the "power, control and humiliation" angle and then their judges do not follow it up. Rape is a despicable crime. Too many rapists get off easily. They need to be locked up for a long time.
james bond
Well-Known Member
There is a movie called Vulgar that puts a twist to rape and men can feel what a woman has to go through.
Valerian
Member
You expressed your points well, imo.
A possible Catholic Church’s response: The passage " one who lusts for another’s wife in his heart is already guilty of adultery, it’s not always a black and white matter. I do not think God attaches too much sin to enjoying the idea, not nearly so much as if the situation hypothetically presented itself, would one act upon it? If that is what is in your heart, then in that way it would be adultery. But I think because God is merciful, He does understand our lusts, but the other side of this message is how blessed is the one who can hold back his passions for a greater virtue. There is grace in sacrifice.
The Church is more merciful than what others may accuse them of because of what some scriptures allegedly say. The tear out your eye is to emphasize the seriousness of the sin, it is not for expecting any sound mind to such a thing. That is why Christ gave us His one true Church, to be the authority on conflicts of beliefs,– even if the ordained are sinners themselves.
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What the hell. No, it isn't. You have some very screwed up views of sexuality.
Skwim
Veteran Member
So if Jesus didn't mean to literally tear one's eyes out and throw them away, then what was he implying we should do? After all, this was a command to do something.
So entertaining sexual thoughts about one's spouse isn't pure? Why not? Thing is, god gave humans the propensity to lust. He made it part of our character. It isn't something we choose to do. As I asked Musing Bassist, "Do you really think people stop and say to themselves, "Hey that's a really hot looking guy over there. I think I'll choose to lust after him? No, lust is an autonomic response that's inherent in one's character. Character that god gave us.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Seriously? Are you saying that a husband and wife should only engage in sex if they are trying to conceive?
And then they wonder why adultery 'happens'.
Skwim
Veteran Member
You've got to be kidding. Either that or you've never found any pleasure in sexual activity. For your sake I hope it's the former.
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