Killing innocent people is a crime in Islam.

[FearGod]

A few questions:

Who is at fault for killing innocent people (X)? The people (A), who fired a missile at the enemy (B), and killing the innocents (X)? Or the enemy (B), who used those innocent people (X) as "human shield", who are killed by people (A)?

What that have to do with this thread ?

 

[Aquitaine]

Apostates was invented by men and not ordered by God.
Death For Apostasy Is Un-Islamic and NOT in the Qur'an!

Regarding homosexuals,there is no mention for them in the quran except that God himself is the one to punish them and that was clear by the story of LOT's people and how God punished them and also the prophet PBUH warned us about the punishment of sex in public


The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Never does sexual perversion become widespread and publicly known in certain people without them being overtaken by plague and disease that never happened to their ancestors who came before them.”(Reported by Ibn Majah.) He (peace be upon him) also said:
“Whenever adultery becomes a widespread phenomena among certain people, death will spread among them.”(Reported by Malik.)

Sounds to me like you need to be telling this to your fellow Muslims, since they're persecuting and killing Apostates and Homosexuals on a daily basis.

 

[FearGod]

Sounds to me like you need to be telling this to your fellow Muslims, since they're persecuting and killing Apostates and Homosexuals on a daily basis.

Do you think that i made this thread for the Hindus.

 

[Aquitaine]

Do you think that i made this thread for the Hindus.

I dunno, the OP wasn't all that clear as to whom you were talking to. To me it sounded like you were trying to convince non-muslims that Islam is "a religion of Peace".

But hey, if you made this thread for the attention of fellow Muslims, then good for you!
There are a few here who still think Apostates should be butchered, good luck in your quest.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, FearGod...I have a question. (I know this is in a debate forum, but I've nothing to argue about.) I accept that the Koran prohibits harming innocents (defined by all common usages of the word). But it's clear that many (a minority) Muslims get this wrong. What do you see as factors which steer some towards wrongful carnage? I'm wondering about cultural facets in some societies, Western meddling/crimes in the Mid-East, Koranic passages which are incorrectly seized upon, etc.

 

[FearGod]

Hey, FearGod...I have a question. (I know this is in a debate forum, but I've nothing to argue about.) I accept that the Koran prohibits harming innocents (defined by all common usages of the word). But it's clear that many (a minority) Muslims get this wrong. What do you see as factors which steer some towards wrongful carnage? I'm wondering about cultural facets in some societies, Western meddling/crimes in the Mid-East, Koranic passages which are incorrectly seized upon, etc.

Good question and it is really hard to know what makes one person to do an awful act believing himself doing a good thing.

i found the same to happen with Anders Breivik who killed around 88 Norwigians for what he thought as defending the west.

[youtube]lGwRKY0NzKM[/youtube]
Breivik trial video: 'Norway killer' claims self-defense, cries in court - YouTube

 

[McBell]

Good question and it is really hard to know what makes one person to do an awful act believing himself doing a good thing.

i found the same to happen with Anders Breivik who killed around 88 Norwigians for what he thought as defending the west.

I have to ask what Anders Breivik has to do with a thread about the Koran saying killing innocents is a crime, especially when he was only mentioned after after it was pointed out that many people who follow the Koran believe that killing innocents will get them great rewards when they meet their god.

 

[FearGod]

I have to ask what Anders Breivik has to do with a thread about the Koran saying killing innocents is a crime, especially when he was only mentioned after after it was pointed out that many people who follow the Koran believe that killing innocents will get them great rewards when they meet their god.

Both did make a crime and both thought that they did something good.

But did they do good whatever the reason they thought it to be good for.

i think it is needed to educate people about the real teachings of religion as to put an end for violence and my thread is just one.

 

[McBell]

Both did make a crime and both thought that they did something good.

But did they do good whatever the reason they thought it to be good for.

i think it is needed to educate people about the real teachings of religion as to put an end for violence and my thread is just one.

Yet in a thread about the Koran, Islam, and Muslims, you drug in a Christian.
Why?

 

[FearGod]

Yet in a thread about the Koran, Islam, and Muslims, you drug in a Christian.
Why?

Because for both,religion was their motivator and both were wrong.

Thanks god that those kind of people are few.

 

[Astounded]

Killing any soul in Islam is a crime,and God made it clear for us to understand.

One verse in the quran says.

أَتَأْمُرُونَ النَّاسَ بِالْبِرِّ وَتَنْسَوْنَ أَنْفُسَكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ تَتْلُونَ الْكِتَابَ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ
What! do you enjoin men to be good and neglect your own souls while you read the Book; have you then no sense? (2:44)

So how to ask people to be good while you yourself are doing evil.

The next verse says

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ

Therefore We prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain mankind altogether; and whoso gives life to a soul, shall be as if he ha given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit excesses in the earth. (5:32)

The verse says that it was said for the children of Israel as not to slay a soul,so it isn't a matter of a believer soul or a disbeliever soul,but any soul,so killing a human being is an evil act and a crime regardless of religion.

Then the verse is saying that god will find it great for those who help the mankind to survive,so it isn't talking about the believers but the human mankind as a whole.

So anyone who kill innocent people in the name of Islam is a murderer and not a real muslim.

Muhammed PBUH was fighting warriors holding swords and for defence and never attacked people in their homes or those walking in peace.

OK, so that verse above is for the Jews (Children of Israel) now explain the next verse to me..which is for Muslims.

Qur’an 5:33 – The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

 

[FearGod]

OK, so that verse above is for the Jews (Children of Israel) now explain the next verse to me..which is for Muslims.

Qur’an 5:33 – The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

The children of Israel had did the same thing and god remind us about their bad deeds in order for muslims to avoid being awful as compared to the children of Israel and then God sent for them the message of peace with Jesus PBUH but they didn't listen to him,see some verses in the Talmud which of course can't be god's words

* “If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
*“If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

Now for the verse which you mentioned as an excuse for muslims to kill then you are wrong and i'm afraid that some awful people (scholars) are doing the same as you are doing now in interpreting this verse in wrong way and even in an evil way

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; (5:33)

So the verse is clear enough which is for who make war and not for peaceful people watching the marathon.

Please watch the video.

[youtube]-_ihf_oPvlg[/youtube]
An Atheist defending Quran and Islam !!

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Actually as far as I can determine from my discussions with Gharib in terms of eventually all Muslims (including prepubescent children) going to paradise while all non-muslims go to hell. While it may be (not just a secular crime but) a sin, it is also an immense favor that you are doing for them by killing someone you know to be a muslim or prepubescent, because by killing them while they are in such a state you ensure they go to paradise eventually. Conversely for a muslim, killing any non prepubescent non muslim is not doing them a favor (but it may be less of a sin, perhaps even a 'duty' under some circumstances) because you are ensuring that they will be denied paradise and punished forever. Now of course no right thinking muslim could (I hope) consider this approach valid, but in terms of purely helping to ensure that people reach paradise as opposed to hell, such an approach would be rational, this is something that is not unique to Islam though.

The same could be said of any religion which features a belief about being rewarded after death if certain conditions are satisfied (conditions that are not static, i.e. someone can believe then leave the faith), then killing them while those conditions are met could be construed as a 'favor'. This is the immense immorality of focusing on the next life instead of this one which we actually (for all intents and purposes) know to exist to an extent of certainty it is never possible to reach for some undetectable unfalsifiable theoretical after life; if an action is not 'moral' in it's effects in this life, then using supposed effects in another to justify it is a monstrous divestment of rationality and reason and everything special about humanity.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Sounds to me like you need to be telling this to your fellow Muslims, since they're persecuting and killing Apostates and Homosexuals on a daily basis.

When Islam spread a lot of cultural innovations came about from societies copying the Salafiyyah Saudi Arabian version of islam which in itself was a cultural innovation and not the "pure form of Islam". Homosexuality is not even punishable by death in the Qur'an if I recall correctly. But it is punishable in Saudi Arabia and this leads to confusion for Muslim and non-Muslims since Saudi is used as the perfect example of Islam.

 

[Astounded]

The children of Israel had did the same thing and god remind us about their bad deeds in order for muslims to avoid being awful as compared to the children of Israel and then God sent for them the message of peace with Jesus PBUH but they didn't listen to him,see some verses in the Talmud which of course can't be god's words

* “If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
*“If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)
* “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
* “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
* “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)

Now for the verse which you mentioned as an excuse for muslims to kill then you are wrong and i'm afraid that some awful people (scholars) are doing the same as you are doing now in interpreting this verse in wrong way and even in an evil way

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; (5:33)

So the verse is clear enough which is for who make war and not for peaceful people watching the marathon.

Please watch the video.

[youtube]-_ihf_oPvlg[/youtube]
An Atheist defending Quran and Islam !!

Nice try..

Do not our troops make "war" and mischief in Islamic lands according to your standards???

Are not then then American people who support our troops fair targets such as the innocent people in the Twin Towers and the Boston Marathon???

 

[Sha'irullah]

[youtube]-_ihf_oPvlg[/youtube]
An Atheist defending Quran and Islam !!

When I was a Muslim I used this video as propaganda and all I can say is that Lesley Hazleton is more incorrect as ever. This is the campaign Western media uses to make the teachings of the Quran perfect and entirely innocent. Even though there are very good statements in the Quran there is also an abundance of negativity. Lesley Hazleton is not a valid source nor has she had any study in the Quran like me and you have.
The Quran is still the Quran and it still teaches that unbelievers will be thrown in a kingdom of eternal suffering for not believing a god who cannot speak any other language than Arabic.

 

[FearGod]

Nice try..

Do not our troops make "war" and mischief in Islamic lands according to your standards???

Are not then then American people who support our troops fair targets such as the innocent people in the Twin Towers and the Boston Marathon???

Nice try.

What do you mean ?

Then what do you mean by American troops declare the war.

Do you mean that muslims have the right to attack innocents as a retaliation.

Please explain what did you mean ?

 

[FearGod]

When I was a Muslim I used this video as propaganda and all I can say is that Lesley Hazleton is more incorrect as ever. This is the campaign Western media uses to make the teachings of the Quran perfect and entirely innocent. Even though there are very good statements in the Quran there is also an abundance of negativity. Lesley Hazleton is not a valid source nor has she had any study in the Quran like me and you have.
The Quran is still the Quran and it still teaches that unbelievers will be thrown in a kingdom of eternal suffering for not believing a god who cannot speak any other language than Arabic.

Would you please show me the forum links that you used this video as your propaganda.

if you are sincere,then that will let me feel comfortable that you aren't a liar.

 

[Astounded]

Nice try.

What do you mean ?

Then what do you mean by American troops declare the war.

Do you mean that muslims have the right to attack innocents as a retaliation.

Please explain what did you mean ?

Does not the verse state murder?? Innocents are murdered.. Hey, it's your book, not mine.

 

[azramushtaq]

yes it is Gunnah and i suggest you to read quran online so you could be able to know that it is sin.