Karma

[Blindinglight]

Not really. To imply Karma implies a believe in a God, is to suggest gravity implies the existance of a God.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I merely see no evidence for Karma. Criminals get away with heinous murders. Manical leaders such as Mao Zedung get away with abusing their power. If you try hard enough and are very selective, you can find "evidence" for anything you wish to believe in.

When i was young, i bullied this little kid. It took time for me to get told of and get that pain thrown back in my face. Things take time, it can come back to you in this life or the next, karma doesent take place straight away.

 

[lilithu]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Karma like, if you do something good for a stranger something good will happen to you?

If so, you missed my point. I do not believe good, evil, right, and wrong to be absolute concepts, but more of personal opinions. If I am correct, then the concept of a Universal Karma is absurd.

You don't have to believe in good and evil to believe in karma. Karma exists even without the judgment. It is not a punishment/reward system. As many have said, it is natural law.

If I push against something solid, what I feel is that thing pushing back. That is karma. It is the natural result of my actions. In "reality" the thing need not be sentient and need not be actually pushing back. But from my perspective, what I do has an effect on the world around me and in return the world around me has an effect on me. It is inescapable. We are not isolated beings, as much as we like to think of ourselves as such.

If I act to make the world more beneficial for people, then the world will be more beneficial for people, including myself. If I act to make the world more harmful for people, then the world will be more harmful for people, including myself. Karma is based on interdependency.

To answer the OP, since there is no judgment involved, karma does not necessarily imply a higher being.

 

[lillitruthseeker]

i believe in karma - what you put out you get back

 

[rojse]

Okay. Most people think that Karma can exist without God settling the accounts him or herself.

But I think that it is merely us looking at someone, thinking, "they've done something wrong, and what happens to them?" If we wait long enough, something will set their plans back, even should it not be directly related to us. If Karma exists as many people see it, like the evening of an account, would that not mean someone, or something is keeping track of the Karma account?

Thanks for all replies so far.

 

[lilithu]

Okay. Most people think that Karma can exist without God settling the accounts him or herself.

But I think that it is merely us looking at someone, thinking, "they've done something wrong, and what happens to them?" If we wait long enough, something will set their plans back, even should it not be directly related to us. If Karma exists as many people see it, like the evening of an account, would that not mean someone, or something is keeping track of the Karma account?

No.

If you throw something up in the air, it comes back down. Does that mean that someone or something is keeping track of the gravity account?

Karma is NOT reward or punishment. Karma simply is the consequences of one's actions. If one perceives an "evening of an account" it's because we're all interconnected to each other. Think of us all connected like nodes of a giant spiderweb. There is no way that you can do something to someone else without it coming back to you.

 

[YmirGF]

Okay. Most people think that Karma can exist without God settling the accounts him or herself.

But I think that it is merely us looking at someone, thinking, "they've done something wrong, and what happens to them?" If we wait long enough, something will set their plans back, even should it not be directly related to us. If Karma exists as many people see it, like the evening of an account, would that not mean someone, or something is keeping track of the Karma account?

Thanks for all replies so far.

Put simply, no. Karma is a reaction to action. Karma in itself is benign. As Lilithu states it is not a cosmic scorecard, but rather a natural relflex action of reality's reaction to a given action. Plain and simple with no need of guide dogs... err gods. In all sincerity it is only the most primitive belief systems that stand behind the existence of a judgmental God weighing every action like some psychotic cosmic accountant. Besides that, Karma without an emphasis on some illusory god concept keeps the onus on the individual to "do the right thing". The individual is always welcome to "do the wrong thing" due to free will, but theoretically they will not have a very pleasant or fulfilling life experience.

 

[rojse]

I think that there is a major difference between gravity and karma. We can model gravity. We have physical equations to understand the process of gravity. Karma, as we all see it, does not work in a consistent fashion, in the sense that if we do the exact same deed, we do not receive the exact same karma, in that we get what we had coming in a different manner. However, if I throw my ball in the air, it always comes back down in the exact same manner, due to gravity.

To compare karma and gravity to me, leaves me to ask: is there any way I can work out my karma in advance of me being immoral, and the gravity of the karma I receive in return?

 

[lilithu]

I think that there is a major difference between gravity and karma. We can model gravity. We have physical equations to understand the process of gravity. Karma, as we all see it, does not work in a consistent fashion, in the sense that if we do the exact same deed, we do not receive the exact same karma, in that we get what we had coming in a different manner. However, if I throw my ball in the air, it always comes back down in the exact same manner, due to gravity.

To compare karma and gravity to me, leaves me to ask: is there any way I can work out my karma in advance of me being immoral, and the gravity of the karma I receive in return?

I thought that you were asking whether karma necessarily implies the existence of a higher being. I thought that was the topic of discussion. I and others have been trying to tell you, no. And to illustrate how something can "even out" without there being a higher being, I used gravity as an example.

I am not here to debate with you whether or not karma really exists. If you don't believe it, no skin off my nose.

 

[gnomon]

I don't think karma implies the existence of a God. There are a few different flavors of karma.

Karma as natural law? That's new. Are there little karma particles bouncing around the universe? What is the mathematics behind the natural law of karma.

Jesus Christ people. Start thinking for a change.

 

[lilithu]

I don't think karma implies the existence of a God. There are a few different flavors of karma.

Buddhists and Hindus pretty much agree. The only significant difference in "flavor" would be the Western conception of karma, which does tend to view it as punishment and reward.

Karma as natural law? That's new. Are there little karma particles bouncing around the universe? What is the mathematics behind the natural law of karma.

Maybe there are karma particles, or waves. Maybe it's something else. The point is, whether you believe in karma or not, that karma is conceived of as a natural law. It happens on its own. There is no god judging and meting out reward and punishment.

Jesus Christ people. Start thinking for a change.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I don't think karma implies the existence of a God. There are a few different flavors of karma.

Karma as natural law? That's new. Are there little karma particles bouncing around the universe? What is the mathematics behind the natural law of karma.

Jesus Christ people. Start thinking for a change.

I dont see little mathematical particles floating around... What you said made NO sense at all. Maths??? That it nothing to do with nothing. It's like when i slap someone it hurts...Where is the maths in that people?!?! the angle at which i slapped???

 

[gnomon]

My apologies.

This just shows how ingrained my mind set is in the hard sciences and when I hear the term "law" applied to nature. It should have been obvious that it was implied as a natural analogous to the physical laws of nature. I'll blame it on reading the thread less than half an hour after waking up.

So, don't mind me. I'll take my own advice.



And pass the salt please. My foot's a little bland.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Sorry, as well if i was a lil hard

 

[rojse]

What is the difference between Buddhistic and Hindu Karma and Westernised Karma? I had only though of Karma as one idea.

 

[lilithu]

What is the difference between Buddhistic and Hindu Karma and Westernised Karma? I had only though of Karma as one idea.

In the Dharmic traditions, karma is not conceived of as a reward/punishment. It is the natural result of your actions. The Westernized version seems to present it as a judgment.

In the Dharmic traditions, karma acts both externally and internally. That is, in addition to having an effect on the world, which will in turn have an effect on you, you yourself are directly changed by your actions. It's not just a matter of if you do something good, good will be returned to you. According to the Dharmic idea of karma, if you do something beneficial it will be easier for you to do it again in the future. Likewise, if you fail to do it, it will be harder for you to do it in the future. Whereas in the Westernized version, I have only ever heard of people talking about external consequences.

There may be other differences, but these are the two that come immediately to mind.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I think the western view stems from judgement day, like heaven for the good people and hell for the badddies