Kali and Satan??

[SomeRandom]

Sorry for the click bait like title guys.
I can’t help it. I just sometimes wonder. My great grandfather was a devout devotee of Mother Kali and I try to honour that as best I can. As is my family duty. And she’s the deity that has always spoken to me. Pulled my atman the most. I see the divine in her
But the rituals I hear he participated in.
Drinking blood from a skull. Ritual sacrifice. They sound eerily similar to Satanic rites. And maybe that’s by design. Slander by the Abrahamics to cast doubt unto our traditions. Even my own mother seems frightened by them at times.
And I was raised in the west. I guess I need a different perspective. One born of Dharmic thought instead.
Is this just a Western prejudice I’m having about Ma Kali?
What are your thoughts? Is this a lingering misunderstanding of paradigms?

 

[stvdv]

Drinking blood from a skull. Ritual sacrifice

Sounds like Kali ... skulls and blood
Sounds like Aghori ritual also

I started with Shivambu

Blood for @Aghori
Skulls for @ChristineM

 

[SomeRandom]

Sounds like Kali ... skulls and blood
Sounds like Aghori ritual also

I started with Shivambu

Blood for @Aghori
Skulls for @ChristineM

Can you tell me about the Aghori? They’re a secret sect right? That purposefully cross boundaries to liberate themselves from them?
I think I’m being directed to them. Maybe I’m merely curious. But I want to know more

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Symbolics associated with those rituals are classic for tantrikas. Nothing to do with satanism or anything like that, it was already there way before. So there is no parallel to bé drawn here, it may kind of look similar on a superficial level but it is absolutely not in the actual practice, symbols and goals.

Your great grandfather was just a tantrika and that's it.

 

[stvdv]

Can you tell me about the Aghori? They’re a secret sect right? That purposefully cross boundaries to liberate themselves from them?
I think I’m being directed to them. Maybe I’m merely curious. But I want to know more

IF the goal of human life is to "be freed" from mental aberration/bondage THEN Aghori-like practices can help to become aware of our bondage

I never met a "real" Aghori, I just read about it in a book and saw some videos about it. And I had my own personal "Aghori-like" experience (below quote)

Personal experiene: Once My Master (who seems to love the Aghori-concept), put me on a very restricted diet to cure some "incurable disease (according to Big Pharma)". I had to do it for 3 month, but after 50 days I got immense pain (due to kidney problems I have), and I prayed to Sai Baba "please help me, you are my doctor, tell me what to do". And He 'told' me 1 word "recycle" (Masters usually don't waste their energy, nor their words; which is my experience)
xxxxAfter some introspection I found out what He meant ... you have to drink your urine. My first thought was "yuck" (I think the next 10 thoughts were yuck too). But, because the pain seemed worse than drinking urine, I decided to follow my Master's advice and started drinking my urine. My pain was gone within a few days
xxxxI was for 30+ years being brainwashed that urine is "yuck" (this was ingrained in my memory cells). So, even though the urine tasted fine, my mind kept telling "yuck". It lasted 21 days till my mind was cleansed of this brainwashed thought "yuck"

So, the Aghori practice entails to go through all our mental(emotional) aberrations by confronting ourselves (by practice NOT by thinking) cleanse our mind of those useless thoughts that have been implanted in our mind for all those years

The moment the mind stops having all those useless thoughts you are liberated
@stvdvRF

 

[SomeRandom]

IF the goal of human life is to "be freed" from mental aberration/bondage THEN Aghori-like practices can help to become aware of our bondage

I never met a "real" Aghori, I just read about it in a book and saw some videos about it. And I had my own personal "Aghori-like" experience (below quote)


So, the Aghori practice entails to go through all our mental(emotional) aberrations by confronting ourselves (by practice NOT by thinking) cleanse our mind of those useless thoughts that have been implanted in our mind for all those years

The moment the mind stops having all those useless thoughts you are liberated
@stvdvRF

Yes. To ascend beyond such boundaries. I agree. It is beneficial for the soul. Intellectually I can agree that such practices may be necessary for spiritual enlightenment. But my mind has been conditioned to associate them with Satanism all the same. I’m trying hard to decouple such thoughts

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

It is hard to decouple such thoughts but fortunately mind can be tamed. There are a lot of methods for that : most often for everyone, Bhakti does the trick. Others will prefer scriptures and philosophy study. Others prefer sadhanas. But it is up to you to see which work the best to go beyond this false concept your mind obcess over.

Aghoris tho are a Shaiva sect, so while their practices are tantrik they are not the same as the tantrik practices of Kali or any other Matrka.

The only common factor is the need to have a guru to initiate you. That's the only common thing.

 

[Jainarayan]

Remember the drinking of blood originated with Maa Kali drinking up the blood of Raktabija so that he couldn’t clone himself. My guess is that devotees drinking blood is in homage to Maa. The skulls, one explanation goes, is they are the souls she has liberated. The severed arms/hands represent Her devotees offering their problems to Her. I think it’s a case of “convergent evolution”... same or similar result from different sources.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry for the click bait like title guys.
I can’t help it. I just sometimes wonder. My great grandfather was a devout devotee of Mother Kali and I try to honour that as best I can. As is my family duty. And she’s the deity that has always spoken to me. Pulled my atman the most. I see the divine in her
But the rituals I hear he participated in.
Drinking blood from a skull. Ritual sacrifice. They sound eerily similar to Satanic rites. And maybe that’s by design. Slander by the Abrahamics to cast doubt unto our traditions. Even my own mother seems frightened by them at times.
And I was raised in the west. I guess I need a different perspective. One born of Dharmic thought instead.
Is this just a Western prejudice I’m having about Ma Kali?
What are your thoughts? Is this a lingering misunderstanding of paradigms?

Yes, that's part of Her worship at times. Human sacrifice was part of it from time to time, as well (most groups practiced that if you go far enough back, so that's not so shocking, especially given what sort of deity Kali is). As for Satanism, there's been a lot of crossover in recent years between Satanism and Eastern LHP philosophies and practices (basically Satanists looking East, just as they are also looking at Gnosticism). Also, "dark" spirituality, regardless of culture, is going to look very similar and involve things like blood, skulls, death, etc. I see that with occultists who are into Latin American religions, forms of Heathenry, etc.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Can you tell me about the Aghori? They’re a secret sect right? That purposefully cross boundaries to liberate themselves from them?
I think I’m being directed to them. Maybe I’m merely curious. But I want to know more

I don't know much about the Aghoris. All i know is that they practice cannibalism. This doesn't mean they actually hunt or murder people for their flesh. They feast only on those corpses which weren't cremated by the members of the family. There are many people in India who cannot afford a proper cremation. Such corpses are usually submerged in the river Ganges by the family members and when they wash up on the other side of the river, the Aghoris pick it up and use them for their personal use. I've also read that the Aghoris practise necrophilia.

Here is an excerpt from an article which explains why they do such abominable acts.

Aghoris are associated with Cannibalism, rituals using human skulls and making love to corpses. The shocking sex Rituals as per Aghoris are when the goddess Kali demands satisfaction in Sex, they then have to find an appropirate corpse and have sexual intercourse with it. Because Aghoris find purity in the filthiest! if an Aghori manages to remain focused on god even during sex with the corpse or while eating a human brain, then he is doing the right way.

Source -
The Journey of an AGHORI

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

There is a lot of sensationalism going on with Aghoris. So I wouldn't believe much of that. They aren't even Shakta and don't worship Kali at all, so... Well. Don't believe everything that is written about that, really.

The kind of sadhanas performed on Funeral grounds may look transgressive and even shocking for people not familiar with tantrik practices. That's precisely why they are kept from the non initiated. So to avoid this kind of misinterpretation and slander. And to avoid people who just want sensationalism and think it's a kind of "trippy left hand path lol" from hurting themselves and others.

 

[SomeRandom]

There is a lot of sensationalism going on with Aghoris. So I wouldn't believe much of that. They aren't even Shakta and don't worship Kali at all, so... Well. Don't believe everything that is written about that, really.

The kind of sadhanas performed on Funeral grounds may look transgressive and even shocking for people not familiar with tantrik practices. That's precisely why they are kept from the non initiated. So to avoid this kind of misinterpretation and slander. And to avoid people who just want sensationalism and think it's a kind of "trippy left hand path lol" from hurting themselves and others.

What exactly are these Sadhanas? Why would they be misinterpreted?
I’m from a family of Tantriks, so it seems.
I want to know more. But from the horse’s mouth

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

What exactly are these Sadhanas? Why would they be misinterpreted?
I’m from a family of Tantriks, so it seems.
I want to know more. But from the horse’s mouth

Some practices, for exemple, will be specific sadhanas and meditations while sitting on corpses. Or finding and carving a specific part of a skull to make a bowl. Or partaking ritually in alcohol and meat at some specific time and dates (practice shared also with some tantrik Shakta schools, especially ones focused on Varahi, and Vajrayana tantrik schools also).

Those are exemples that are common or already known. I can't say more without breaking rules and vows, so I won't.

As for exemples of why they would be misinterpreted, look at pretty much 95% of western journalism or esotericists have written or made with it. The sheer amount of misinformation is just astounding. It's even become a very profitable business for Fake gurus to attract gullible new agey people looking for a quick "sensual kundalini third eye of aquarius with tibetan bowl sounds one week retreat" experience.

Real, traditional tantra is a long and hard way. Not a sensational trippy creepy kind of esoterico-satanism like left hand path. And it's a path that starts with a teacher, always.

 

[SomeRandom]

Some practices, for exemple, will be specific sadhanas and meditations while sitting on corpses. Or finding and carving a specific part of a skull to make a bowl. Or partaking ritually in alcohol and meat at some specific time and dates (practice shared also with some tantrik Shakta schools, especially ones focused on Varahi, and Vajrayana tantrik schools also).

Those are exemples that are common or already known. I can't say more without breaking rules and vows, so I won't.

As for exemples of why they would be misinterpreted, look at pretty much 95% of western journalism or esotericists have written or made with it. The sheer amount of misinformation is just astounding. It's even become a very profitable business for Fake gurus to attract gullible new agey people looking for a quick "sensual kundalini third eye of aquarius with tibetan bowl sounds one week retreat" experience.

Real, traditional tantra is a long and hard way. Not a sensational trippy creepy kind of esoterico-satanism like left hand path. And it's a path that starts with a teacher, always.

Very true. Such malicious information abounds about our traditions.
I’ve always been drawn to such a path and even my traditional minded mother has said as much. Much to her dismay.
Hard to find a teacher though

 

[Aupmanyav]

I guess I need a different perspective. One born of Dharmic thought instead.
Is this just a Western prejudice I’m having about Ma Kali?

Yes, it is a Western prejudice. No rituals are required for Kali (or for any other God or Goddess, IMHO).
She is just a mother who gets ferociously angry when her children are threatened and she would even drink the blood of the enemies of her children.
Just a mother. It is not that her tongue is hanging out all the time. That is only a snapshot. Shanta kali - Google Search

That is Mother Kali.

 

[Viraja]

My 2c on the subject:

Once a shakta informed that Kali sadhana has relevance with the particular form of Kali chosen for worship.

Let me attach the particular picture of Kali that would interest us in this discussion.

The attached form of Kali is said to be a 'ugra' (wrathful) form and is said to be *hard to please*. She demands rigorous chants, abstinence from taboos, and may accept sacrifices as stated for Kali sadhana.

There are forms of Kali such as 'Madhurakaliamman' (also attached) where she is in her Shantha or peaceful form and is suitable for household practice of Kali worship and is said to be easy to please.

I believe Dakshineshwar Kali is also a form of peaceful Kali.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Drinking blood from a skull. Ritual sacrifice. They sound eerily similar to Satanic rites. And maybe that’s by design. Slander by the Abrahamics to cast doubt unto our traditions. Even my own mother seems frightened by them at times.
And I was raised in the west. I guess I need a different perspective. One born of Dharmic thought instead.
Is this just a Western prejudice I’m having about Ma Kali?
What are your thoughts? Is this a lingering misunderstanding of paradigms?

These rituals and beliefs are held by the ignorant people and claimed by fake tantrics even today in India.
Mother Kali had to take this form to save her children from a particularly devious demon in legends - Raktabeeja, whose every drop of blood spilled on ground would have created another Raktabeeja.
I take Kali as none other than the loving Mother Durga. That for me is the dharmic perspective.
Your great grandpa was influenced by tantric stories. Early 20th Century or late 19th??

 

[Aupmanyav]

Can you tell me about the Aghori? They’re a secret sect right? That purposefully cross boundaries to liberate themselves from them?
I think I’m being directed to them. Maybe I’m merely curious. But I want to know more

Nothing secret about 'aghoris'. I think they are one of the examples of Advaitists (non-dualists) who consider the flesh of a dead human as no different from any other object. After all, all that exist in the universe is Brahman only. Leave it to people to sensationalize simple things. Don't we eat the flesh of killed animals? As you know, 'Aghor' literally means 'not extreme'.

 

[mangalavara]

I do not take Kali as none other than the loving Mother Durga. That for me is the dharmic perspective.

Yes. If @SomeRandom hasn’t done so already, she can see Kali as an expansion of Durga Ma in Chapter 7 of Devi Mahatmyam. In that chapter, Kali wears a garland of skulls and a tiger skin, by the way.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes. If @SomeRandom hasn’t done so already, she can see Kali as an expansion of Durga Ma in Chapter 7 of Devi Mahatmyam. In that chapter, Kali wears a garland of skulls and a tiger skin, by the way.

Ahh, I do.
Ma Kali is another aspect (for lack of a better term) for Ma Durga.

Incidentally, there’s quite a few depictions of Ma Durga riding a tiger are there not?
(And on a Lion as well? Right?)
I have a tiny statue of that, which I love. It’s gold and has been painted. I think I got it in Fiji as a kid lol