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JW's Preach A Different Gospel

savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
djhwoodwerks said:
Mat 28:19 (ESVST) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations,

(STRONG) g3101. μαθητής mathētēs; from 3129; a learner, i. e. pupil:— disciple. AV (269)- disciple 268, vr disciple 1; a learner, pupil, disciple

1Co 12:29 (ESVST) 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
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FYI Bibles add the work "make" at Matthew 28:19. I am sure what was written is Jesus saying that he is going therefore we are to disciple the nations in his stead. To make disciples and to be a disciple are different. Are they not? Of course, helping others to be disciples is a PART of the job though it is God who really makes disciples. Part and whole are different. The whole obligation of a believer in Jesus is to be a disciple. Only one aspect of it is to serve God to make disciples.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
This is what the WT tells the people of Christendom

*** g84 11/22 p. 8 An Open Mind Wins God’s Approval ***
Avoid Religious Prejudice
When people are approached with a religious message, they may react in one of several ways. Some will say: “Absolute truth is impossible to find”; “all religions are only out for your money”; “science has disproved religion”; “religion is just a crutch for weak people.” These views, and others like them, tend to close the mind and cut off investigation before it has begun. It is prejudice at work.


And this is what the WT tells JW's.

*** w04 2/15 p. 28 “Fight the Fine Fight of the Faith” ***
It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God’s response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: “Before him no apostate will come in.”—Job 13:16.
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
djhwoodwerks said:
This is what the WT tells the people of Christendom

*** g84 11/22 p. 8 An Open Mind Wins God’s Approval ***
Avoid Religious Prejudice
When people are approached with a religious message, they may react in one of several ways. Some will say: “Absolute truth is impossible to find”; “all religions are only out for your money”; “science has disproved religion”; “religion is just a crutch for weak people.” These views, and others like them, tend to close the mind and cut off investigation before it has begun. It is prejudice at work.


And this is what the WT tells JW's.

*** w04 2/15 p. 28 “Fight the Fine Fight of the Faith” ***
It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God’s response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: “Before him no apostate will come in.”—Job 13:16.
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Hmmmm, don't JW's teach that apostates get a second chance? Kind of flies in the face of what Job said in Watchtower's quote above, doesn't it? "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16
 
McBell

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
12jtartar

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Baladas said:
I think that it's funny that they have made it to say that there are multiple gods.
However, this obviously threatens to end their monotheism. I believe that they hold "god" to mean a mighty being or person, but not like "God" God (JWs correct me if I am mistaken).

No, not in traditional Christianity. JWs don't agree with the notion that the Spirit is a "person" (basically, that it has any form or personality). To them, it is the power of God (JWs, once again please correct me if I'm wrong on this). The idea of the Trinity is that Father, Son and Spirit are all parts of the same God.
It's like the "Godhead" is a circle and the three are contained within it...or like the clover with the three leaves. Each leaf is distinct, but they are all the clover.

They're distinct persons, but the same Being.
It's a bit unclear to me how the idea of the Trinity was conceived but it fascinates me. lol :D
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Baladas,
Please! A few points to meditate on. Every scripture in the Bible is related to every other scripture, called Intertextualism. If there are scriptures in the Bible that contradict your theory, your theory is not accurate. There is truth in the Bible, and it is Univocal, it tells ONE story.
There is NO argument about Jesus being a god, but Jesus would and has been the first to tell you that he is not the Father, The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name is Jehovah.
We are actually told in the Bible at Isa 9:6,7, that Jesus is a mighty God, El Gabohn, but The Almighty God is El Shaddai. If you have a concordance or a good Bible dictionary, it is easy to understand.
In the Original Autographs of the Bible books, God's name in Hebrew, YHWH, was written over 7,000 times, but only four times in the KJV, Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, Isa 12:2-4, 26:4. By removing God's name from His own book, the translators have made a serious mistake. By removing God's name and replacing The NAME with titles, LORD, GOD, in all capital letters, they have made the Bible inaccurate. Here's why; at Isa 42:8, the Bible originally said; I am Jehovah, that is my name. Well, we know that the terms lord and God, are not names but titles.
Consider what Jesus himself said about the Father, at John 17:3, where Jesus says that the Only True God sent him, Jesus, and that it means our everlasting life to learn about Him.
Consider John 20:17, where Jesus says that The Father is his Father and his God, just as He is for all True Chtistians.
At John 14:28, Jesus said that The Father is greater than I am.
At Matt 20:23, Jesus tells the disciples that he doesn't control all things, that some things belong only to the Father.
At Matt 24:36, Jesus says that only the Father knows some things, even Jesus does not know.
Consider Matt 26: 39, Jesus parts earnestly to his Father. also at Heb 5:7-9.
I could go on and on, but if a person believes what the Bible says, this should suffice.
At John 6:57, Jesus said, I live because of the Father. Notice Pr 23:22.
,
 
K

katiemygirl

CHRISTIAN
12jtartar said:
Baladas,
Please! A few points to meditate on. Every scripture in the Bible is related to every other scripture, called Intertextualism. If there are scriptures in the Bible that contradict your theory, your theory is not accurate. There is truth in the Bible, and it is Univocal, it tells ONE story.
There is NO argument about Jesus being a god, but Jesus would and has been the first to tell you that he is not the Father, The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name is Jehovah.
We are actually told in the Bible at Isa 9:6,7, that Jesus is a mighty God, El Gabohn, but The Almighty God is El Shaddai. If you have a concordance or a good Bible dictionary, it is easy to understand.
In the Original Autographs of the Bible books, God's name in Hebrew, YHWH, was written over 7,000 times, but only four times in the KJV, Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, Isa 12:2-4, 26:4. By removing God's name from His own book, the translators have made a serious mistake. By removing God's name and replacing The NAME with titles, LORD, GOD, in all capital letters, they have made the Bible inaccurate. Here's why; at Isa 42:8, the Bible originally said; I am Jehovah, that is my name. Well, we know that the terms lord and God, are not names but titles.
Consider what Jesus himself said about the Father, at John 17:3, where Jesus says that the Only True God sent him, Jesus, and that it means our everlasting life to learn about Him.
Consider John 20:17, where Jesus says that The Father is his Father and his God, just as He is for all True Chtistians.
At John 14:28, Jesus said that The Father is greater than I am.
At Matt 20:23, Jesus tells the disciples that he doesn't control all things, that some things belong only to the Father.
At Matt 24:36, Jesus says that only the Father knows some things, even Jesus does not know.
Consider Matt 26: 39, Jesus parts earnestly to his Father. also at Heb 5:7-9.
I could go on and on, but if a person believes what the Bible says, this should suffice.
At John 6:57, Jesus said, I live because of the Father. Notice Pr 23:22.
,
Click to expand...
The thread topic is JW's preach another gospel. Maybe you can show us where Jesus or anyone in the Bible taught that the kingdom was established in 1914. Perhaps at the samee time you could show us where Jesus or any other Bible writer ever used the term "paradise earth."

You left some very vital verses out of your argument.

John 14
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”9Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 26:28
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 10
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
12jtartar said:
His own book, the translators have made a serious mistake. By removing God's name and replacing The NAME with titles, LORD, GOD, in all capital letters, they have made the Bible inaccurate.
Click to expand...

His own book, the translators have made a serious mistake. By removing God's name and replacing the NAME with JEHOVAH (a name created by a CATHOLIC MONK in the 1200's), they have made the Bible incorrect.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
JW's, ever wonder why whenever Jesus referred to the Son of man it was always in 3rd person? Why do you think He didn't say "I" or "ME" instead? Like, "I" have nowhere to lay "MY" head.

Mat 8:20 (ESVST) 20 And Jesus said to him, " Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."

Mat 16:27 (ESVST) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Mar 2:10-11 (ESVST) 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" —he said to the paralytic — 11 "I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home."

Mar 8:38 (ESVST) 38 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

Luke 6:5 (ESVST) 5 And he said to them, " The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

John 17:1-3 (ESVST) "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
 
D

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
12jtartar said:
Please! A few points to meditate on. Every scripture in the Bible is related to every other scripture, called Intertextualism.
Click to expand...

Here's something to meditate on, what other scriptures are related to this "PROPHECY" to validate it as a future "PROPHECY"?

Mat 24:45 (ESVST) 45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?


*** w10 12/15 p. 10 par. 14 Be Zealous for True Worship ***
14 In prayer to God, Jesus clearly stated: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17) And before leaving the earthly scene, Jesus indicated that he would appoint “the faithful and discreet slave” to provide spiritual food for his people. (Matt. 24:45)


*** w13 7/15 p. 19 par. 18 Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few ***
18 In his prophecy about the time of the end, Jesus foretold that he would appoint a channel to give out spiritual “food at the proper time.” (Matt. 24:45-47)
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
savagewind said:
Matthew 24:26

The sticky thing is that if the JWs did not preach to me that Jesus and God are with them I would not know that it is written Jesus said, "do not believe it". Nobody else came to my house telling me that I had better know what God says.
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I beleive I can understand appreciating those who have helped but sooner or later one will find they have clay feet.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Katie said "Receive Jesus as Lord and Savior is not the gospel. It is a response to the gospel.

Unless you heard the gospel preached, you would not have known to receive Lord as Savior.

The gospel is the good news that Jesus died, was buried and raised from the dead, and because of His sacrifice you, too, can live forever.

The gospel saves!

1 Cor. 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 16:1
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

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Please explain.

I believe I would not have received Jesus as Lord and Savior if I hadn't known a little of what is in the Bible but at the time I was not thinking of the gospel as Paul preached it. Mainly it was the gospel as Jesus preached it and Paul is not far off from that. I had just finished reading John 3 the discourse with Nicodemus and realizing that there is a Spirit and that Jesus therefore could be raised from the dead. This brought to remembrance an early encounter I had with God re-inforcing the concept of a Spirit. It was that and a Biblical knowledge that God is good that allowed me to ask Him to be my Lord and Savior. I did not have a full understanding of the gospel of Jesus until later.

I beleive that is nice but it is not what saved me. It is a good gospel so maybe some get saved by it. What is your testimony. How did you get saved?

I beleive it does but that it doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes it only gets in the way of reaching a person.
 
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