Just Curious ...

[PureX]

I stumbled on this post in another thread, that I had forgotten about, and I thought it captured a kind of theism I almost never see expressed on RF. And it seems to have been ignored in this particular instance, too. So I'm puzzled by this.

Do you think it's just not being understood? Or is there some other reason this concept of theism never seems to gain any traction among the RF crowd? Anyway, here is the post I'm referring to ... It was written as a reply to someone specific, but is applicable to anyone.

Humans are designed to ask these kinds of questions. By that I mean to ask questions that we cannot answer. But we can learn a lot from it, about ourselves, if nothing else.

First, though, what do you know about "existence"? Do you know it's possibilities? Or it's limitations? Do you know if it has a purpose, and what that might be? And how would a "God" fit into what you think you know about existence? Especially a "creator God". How could we claim that such a God existed before creating existence? And if such a God did not exists before existence, itself, then what gave God, It's existence?

See what I mean? Lots of questions, and no answers.

So what DO we know about "God", or for that matter, existence? Well, we know they are both ideas in the human mind. Ideas that our minds generate in response to our experience of being human, and of living in a physical reality that we did not create, and mostly cannot control. And it's because we live in a physical reality that we did not create and mostly do not control that our minds developed the idea of "God" as an entity that did create the world and that does control it ... at least more than we can.

Does this mean "God is not real"? I would think just the opposite is true. The God ideal is the direct result of our minds confronting a reality that we did not create and do not control. And our minds did this for a very good reason: to help us deal with the unknowable and uncontrollable world in which we find ourselves.

So I would ask myself why would I want to reject an ideal that my own mind, and billions of other minds like mine generated to help ourselves deal with the unknowable and uncontrollable world in which we all find ourselves? I mean, whether God exists or not, and however God exists, or doesn't, is not something you or I will ever be able to determine. But the fact that our minds have generated this conceptual mechanism to help us live in a world that we can't control is something that I can choose to use to my advantage when I am being confronted by my own vulnerability and ignorance in this world. So why not use it?

The question to you is not, "does God really exist?". The question to you is, "does faith in a God of your choosing work for you, in your life?" Because that's a question that you CAN answer. That's a question you can test, and a question that provides you with a "God" that you can reinvent as you need to. And that's a God that can save your life. And make your experience of life, significantly better. And not just for you, but for everyone around you, too.
​

Nearly everyone on this site presumes theism to be about "believing in" some kind of deity. But I think "believing in" deities is missing the fundamental purpose of theism. Which is to provide us with a means of dealing with the unknowable, and the uncontrollable aspects of our experience of being human. "God" represents that knowledge and control. And we can use that representation to help us deal with our vulnerability in this regard, often in a very significant way.

Even the atheists are doing this. Although they are choosing to use their highly idealized concept of science in the way that theists use their highly idealized concepts of "God". And it just shows how powerful this need is, in us, to feel as if we have some means of dealing with our profound lack of knowledge and control, and the foreboding sense of vulnerability that results..

 

[Audie]

I stumbled on this post in another thread, that I had forgotten about, and I thought it captured a kind of theism I almost never see expressed on RF. And it seems to have been ignored in this particular instance, too. So I'm puzzled by this.

Do you think it's just not being understood? Or is there some other reason this concept of theism never seems to gain any traction among the RF crowd? Anyway, here is the post I'm referring to ... It was written as a reply to someone specific, but is applicable to anyone.

Humans are designed to ask these kinds of questions. By that I mean to ask questions that we cannot answer. But we can learn a lot from it, about ourselves, if nothing else.

First, though, what do you know about "existence"? Do you know it's possibilities? Or it's limitations? Do you know if it has a purpose, and what that might be? And how would a "God" fit into what you think you know about existence? Especially a "creator God". How could we claim that such a God existed before creating existence? And if such a God did not exists before existence, itself, then what gave God, It's existence?

See what I mean? Lots of questions, and no answers.

So what DO we know about "God", or for that matter, existence? Well, we know they are both ideas in the human mind. Ideas that our minds generate in response to our experience of being human, and of living in a physical reality that we did not create, and mostly cannot control. And it's because we live in a physical reality that we did not create and mostly do not control that our minds developed the idea of "God" as an entity that did create the world and that does control it ... at least more than we can.

Does this mean "God is not real"? I would think just the opposite is true. The God ideal is the direct result of our minds confronting a reality that we did not create and do not control. And our minds did this for a very good reason: to help us deal with the unknowable and uncontrollable world in which we find ourselves.

So I would ask myself why would I want to reject an ideal that my own mind, and billions of other minds like mine generated to help ourselves deal with the unknowable and uncontrollable world in which we all find ourselves? I mean, whether God exists or not, and however God exists, or doesn't, is not something you or I will ever be able to determine. But the fact that our minds have generated this conceptual mechanism to help us live in a world that we can't control is something that I can choose to use to my advantage when I am being confronted by my own vulnerability and ignorance in this world. So why not use it?

The question to you is not, "does God really exist?". The question to you is, "does faith in a God of your choosing work for you, in your life?" Because that's a question that you CAN answer. That's a question you can test, and a question that provides you with a "God" that you can reinvent as you need to. And that's a God that can save your life. And make your experience of life, significantly better. And not just for you, but for everyone around you, too.
​

Nearly everyone on this site presumes theism to be about "believing in" some kind of deity. But I think "believing in" deities is missing the fundamental purpose of theism. Which is to provide us with a means of dealing with the unknowable, and the uncontrollable aspects of our experience of being human. "God" represents that knowledge and control. And we can use that representation to help us deal with our vulnerability in this regard, often in a very significant way.

Even the atheists are doing this. Although they are choosing to use their highly idealized concept of science in the way that theists use their highly idealized concepts of "God". And it just shows how powerful this need is, in us, to feel as if we have some means of dealing with our profound lack of knowledge and control, and the foreboding sense of vulnerability that results..

What highly idealized notion are you even talking about? Is that just the wordy way
to yet again cry your false and insidious
"SCIENTISM" cry? ( of which you have no
examples while simultaneously playing
the o regenerative fallacy)

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I think "believing in" deities is missing the fundamental purpose of theism. Which is to provide us with a means of dealing with the unknowable, and the uncontrollable aspects of our experience of being human. "God" represents that knowledge and control. And we can use that representation to help us deal with our vulnerability in this regard, often in a very significant way.

I can't relate to that at all. I'm fine with "I don't know," that I am not watched over, and that consciousness likely ends with death.

Even the atheists are doing this. Although they are choosing to use their highly idealized concept of science in the way that theists use their highly idealized concepts of "God". And it just shows how powerful this need is, in us, to feel as if we have some means of dealing with our profound lack of knowledge and control, and the foreboding sense of vulnerability that results..

What foreboding sense of vulnerability? I understand that one might feel existential angst, and I remember such feelings myself from childhood, but you seem to think it's nearly universal and persists for a lifetime. Maybe you're right, but still, it's not an issue for me.

I don't use science for anything except for answers about how the world works and how it got to be that way, which is mostly for interest's sake since little of that knowledge has practical value to me, and to benefit from its discoveries.

 

[PureX]

People that can't trust in the mystery that is our existence become fearful, and that fear then drives them to selfishness. They don't or can't trust their fellow humans. They can't or won't forgive them for any infraction. Every difficulty they experience gets blamed on the world, and on it's people, and on 'fate'. Or on the gods.

Learning to trust life is important. Learning to trust in people is also very important. It keeps us positive and moving forward. It keeps us open to others needs and suffering and willing to help, and to be helped. And when that trusting nature becomes positive action, that's faith. Not belief ... faith.

This isn't about religion or religious belief. It's about developing trust in the unknown and unknowable to a point where we can act on it for the benefit of ourselves and others. For many people this is a process that they develop and maintain through their faith in their God (however they conceive of it) and the practice of their religion. But a religious God, and belief in it, is not necessary for the development of faith, i.e., trust translating into action. Trust in the source of existence, and in it's positive purpose, whatever that is, and however one chooses to characterize it, will work with or without "God" or religion.

It seems to me that vary few people understand this, or recognize it's importance. Yet it's why religions matter, and why they fail when they fail, and fall into dogmatic authoritarian belief. It's why so many atheist become overly trusting of science, to the point of falling into 'scientism'. And it's the difference between being a frightened, selfish, jerk, always looking out for #1, and a loving, forgiving, sharing Human being.

I don't care about the existence of what anyone calls God, or the lack thereof. I care that we humans find a way to trust in the mystery of existence enough to actively care about each other, and the planet. So we can begin to live accordingly.