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Just a dumb thought, I have a lot of them !

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
You built this company, didn't you ?
Who made the asphalt that built the road to your company ?
Who built the street that connects your company to the highway ?
Who lights the night and powers the power lines, and provides power to your company ?
Who owns the trucks that supply the materials needed for your company to sell or manufacture with.
What companies in the orient supply most of what is needed to run YOUR business ?
What companies produce the materials that are needed to further new business ?
What company borrowed the money with which to pay and sell other products for your company to process or sell with ?
What company built the companies that build the products from which all the other products are made....and on and on.....
But......who really built your company ?
~
`[email protected]
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Obama's words were to show humility and humbleness for the business you've been able to achieve. Nothing more. Give credit where it's due.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You built this company, didn't you ?
Who made the asphalt that built the road to your company ?
Who built the street that connects your company to the highway ?
Who lights the night and powers the power lines, and provides power to your company ?
Who owns the trucks that supply the materials needed for your company to sell or manufacture with.
What companies in the orient supply most of what is needed to run YOUR business ?
What companies produce the materials that are needed to further new business ?
What company borrowed the money with which to pay and sell other products for your company to process or sell with ?
What company built the companies that build the products from which all the other products are made....and on and on.....
But......who really built your company ?
~
`[email protected]
I built my company.
Obama, never having built anything, doesn't understand.
To say that other people cooperated in providing infrastructure is a red herring which no one disputes. He proffers a false controversy
in order to create a sense that those who build companies are not so deserving of the fruits of our labor, & should pay more taxes.

His gaffe was so interesting. Of course, he was referring to the economic environment (eg, education, infrastructure) when he said....
If you've got a business....you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.
But consider what he said leading up to the above statement....
....I'm not going.....to give tax breaks to.....folks who don't need'm.
There are a lot of smart people out there.
There are a whole bunch of hard working people out there.
It's clear to many that he wants to minimize the value of individual success, & let the unsuccessful think to themselves that
they are as smart & hard working as the titans of industry, & they deserve a bigger piece of that pie because it's owed them.

To say "If you've got a business....you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." resonates because it seems an
accidental moment of honesty & candor from a man who never ran a business or even held a real job in the private sector
during his entire life. Moreover, he doesn't understand that "tax breaks" aren't just about the need of the taxpayer, but
the tax structure also can provide incentives to productivity or disincentives. A man who has never played the game should
not be making the rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=192oEC5TX_Q&feature=related
 
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tytlyf

Not Religious
I built my company.
Obama, never having built anything, doesn't understand.
What's to understand, it's not like a business is a difficult thing to start. Most fail. Obama didn't choose that path in life. And neither do I. If I wanted to start a business, I could.

Obama's life has consisted mostly of public service work. Let's look at a brief recap of what he was doing when he could of starting a business like you.

"in 1981, he transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialty in international relations[33] and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in 1983. He worked for a year at the Business International Corporation,[34] then at the New York Public Interest Research Group."

"Two years after graduating, Obama was hired in Chicago as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale on Chicago's South Side. He worked there as a community organizer from June 1985 to May 1988."

"In late 1988, Obama entered Harvard Law School. He was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review at the end of his first year,[44] and president of the journal in his second year.[38][45] During his summers, he returned to Chicago, where he worked as an associate at the law firms of Sidley Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990."

"In 1991, Obama accepted a two-year position as Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School to work on his first book.[48][49] He then taught at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years—as a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996, and as a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004—teaching constitutional law"

"In 1993, he joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 13-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development, where he was an associate for three years from 1993 to 1996, then of counsel from 1996 to 2004. His law license became inactive in 2007"

State Senator: 1997–2004

U.S. Senator: 2005–2008

U.S. President: 2008-

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Obviously he wasn't on a building a business path. Seemed more like a path of helping people and the community.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What's to understand, it's not like a business is a difficult thing to start. Most fail.
The underlined portion illustrates the error of the first sentence.

Obama's life has consisted mostly of public service work. Let's look at a brief recap of what he was doing when he could of starting a business like you.
"in 1981, he transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialty in international relations[33] and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in 1983. He worked for a year at the Business International Corporation,[34] then at the New York Public Interest Research Group."
"Two years after graduating, Obama was hired in Chicago as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale on Chicago's South Side. He worked there as a community organizer from June 1985 to May 1988."
"In late 1988, Obama entered Harvard Law School. He was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review at the end of his first year,[44] and president of the journal in his second year.[38][45] During his summers, he returned to Chicago, where he worked as an associate at the law firms of Sidley Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990."
"In 1991, Obama accepted a two-year position as Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School to work on his first book.[48][49] He then taught at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years—as a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996, and as a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004—teaching constitutional law"
"In 1993, he joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 13-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development, where he was an associate for three years from 1993 to 1996, then of counsel from 1996 to 2004. His law license became inactive in 2007"
State Senator: 1997–2004
U.S. Senator: 2005–2008
U.S. President: 2008-
Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Obviously he wasn't on a building a business path. Seemed more like a path of helping people and the community.
He made some fine choices.
But they just don't give the kind of experience necessary to be the leader of the largest economy in the world.
He could've indeed become formidable had he run a business & learned the lessons.
Example:
He has a new program to help distressed homeowners. A friend was notified by his bank that he's eligible for the program,
which has the fed paying all closing costs. But my friend discovered he's not qualified because the bank shows he made one
late payment over the last decade. His earlier programs also disqualified the very people it was directed at.

So we have a prez who says I didn't build my business, yet he personally creates millions of jobs......geeze, it's Bizarro World here.
 
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4consideration

*
Premium Member
You ask a lot of questions. I gave a lot of answers. You might want to get a cup of coffee for this one. :D
You built this company, didn't you ?
Yes, I did. Since I am not working at this time, I am answering from the perspective of a position that I previously held, with a company that I helped build. I did not financially or legally own the company. But, I took "ownership" in my attitude, performance and dedication to that company. I operated within my own sense of personal integrity and fairness as though the company was mine. I valued my personal reputation and the reputation of the business in keeping my word, providing dependable, fair and high quality service and products at a reasonable cost. I also put much focus on frugality of expenditures and profitability for the company.
Who made the asphalt that built the road to your company ?
A different company made the asphalt (well concrete) that built the road. I value that company, too.
Who built the street that connects your company to the highway ?
A municiple road crew, or contracted road crew, built that road. It was paid for with tax dollars paid by people and businesses that came before us. Our tax dollars went to build different roads or maintain those roads. I value roads and the people that build them.
Who lights the night and powers the power lines, and provides power to your company ?
A different company supplies the power. We paid for it with money. It's a win/win. I value electricity and other services and the people that provide them.
Who owns the trucks that supply the materials needed for your company to sell or manufacture with.
A trucking company owns the trucks. That trucking company pays lots and lots of tax dollars for operating that truck. Those tax dollars and other costs are part of the price we pay them for their service. I value trucking companies and the people that operate them.
What companies in the orient supply most of what is needed to run YOUR business ?
None that I am aware of.
What companies produce the materials that are needed to further new business ?
Various other companies. Please provide that data if you know the answer.
What company borrowed the money with which to pay and sell other products for your company to process or sell with ?
I have no idea. Please provide that data. :)
What company built the companies that build the products from which all the other products are made....and on and on.....
But......who really built your company ?
More rhetorical questions. I am sure you don't really expect an aswer.

I do understand, and in a sense, share the perspective in that there is nothing that any of us can think, do, or say that has not been provided to us or is not in some way related to standing on the shoulders of those that came before us. If left to our own devices no human being would likely make it past the first few days of life. And, what we may be so proud to think of as our own personal brilliance, is highly dependent upon the thinking and accomplishments of huge numbers of other people -- over a vast expanse of time.

That does not diminish the fact that the company would not exist as the company, without those that actually formed it, financed it, built it up bit by bit -- and operated it. If you accept the argument that the people who began, financed and operated a business -- who took the risk and put in the effort -- did not actually build it and do not get credit for it -- then IMO you have provided an argument that no one deserves credit for any sort of human endeavor, whatsoever -- and does not own the fruits of their labor. I disagree.

Now I have a few questions that you didn't ask:

Who made sure to their employees, their rent, their utilities, their taxes, their supply and inventory invoices were paid up before paying themselves? The two owners.

Who, in the first three years, went without paychecks during numerous pay cycles -- in order to build a solid business, without debt, rather than simply borrow money to relieve the momentary discomfort of not enough money? The owners. (I don't see "the government" willing to do that.) I know the owners did this, and not just a few times -- because I handled all the finances/payroll/taxes. I also knew them personally and closely. They didn't magically get a bunch of personal money in the bank -- to fall back on -- just because they started a business.

Who payed ME more than they paid themselves for a few years, because I was worth it, they knew it, and the cash flow was not yet sufficient to pay us all the same thing? The owners.

Who had to listen to employees' snide comments like "oh, just getting in" when they had spent the morning running business related errands, or slept in a little -- after having spent the entire weekend revising the warehouse, or making other changes, to make order-pulling more efficient and easier on the staff -- because they didn't have the money to pay over-time, at a time when they weren't even getting a check themselves that pay period? That's right -- the owners.

Who had to listen to "you're just lucky" from the very people that worked for them -- when those same people would bolt out of the door at closing time (not faulting them there for leaving on time) but had no idea how late the owners actually worked? The owners.

And, who had to listen to those same (really nice employees) express feeling "put upon" to have to vaccum the office area or clean the bathrooms when the owners had been doing it for years before being able to offer anyone a job? That's right, again. The owners.

Now, who showed up, with no electricity, after her 2nd residence within two months had been destroyed by a hurricane? Who took orders off of the voice mail and hand-wrote packing lists, labels and UPS log with only the natural light coming in through the windows, and in sweltering heat? Who got those orders out, in spite of feeling of personal loss, fear and being alone -- because no one else showed up -- and the owners had travelled farther away in the evacuation and weren't back yet? I DID.

I don't need to be reminded that other people that I do business with, and that contribute to and built a wonderful society are valuable assets to my life. I helped build a wonderful business that was wonderful because it already knew that and honored the value in others.

You know why I think they deserve the profit portion of the fruits of MY labor? They deserve it because they paid me an agreed upon amount of money, they offered me benefits -- but only once they could afford to do so. They took the risk, and the financial hit when times were slow or unforeseen things like weather, or a UPS strike inteferred with business. They deserve the profit of a business well-run.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
You built this company, didn't you ?
Who made the asphalt that built the road to your company ?
Who built the street that connects your company to the highway ?
Who lights the night and powers the power lines, and provides power to your company ?
Who owns the trucks that supply the materials needed for your company to sell or manufacture with.
What companies in the orient supply most of what is needed to run YOUR business ?
What companies produce the materials that are needed to further new business ?
What company borrowed the money with which to pay and sell other products for your company to process or sell with ?
What company built the companies that build the products from which all the other products are made....and on and on.....
But......who really built your company ?
~
`[email protected]
These ideas aren't dumb, they are specious. First of all the companies you listed were built by individuals, not governments. Secondly, the roads were built in part with the money that I and my employees paid in taxes. Thirdly, like our illustrious leader said, there are certainly smarter people that worked almost as hard as I did, but the difference is they didn't take the risk. They didn't risk all their money, their homes, and their relationships to build a business. They didn't work 16-18 hour days as a norm. They didn't lay awake at night wondering how they were going to make a payroll by the end of the week. At no time in the last 20+ years did any government agent show up at my door and offer any help. Neither did any private individual offer a helping hand unless I paid them. So to Mr. Obama-and anyone else who may be wondering- I built this business, thank you.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I just showed you proof that most businesses fail and you agree.

Here's another one, if you didn't like the first.

"What is the survival rate for new firms?
Seven out of 10 new employer firms survive at least 2 years, half at least 5 years, a third at least 10 years, and a quarter stay in business 15 years or more. Census data report that 69 percent of new employer establishments born to new firms in 2000 survived at least 2 years, and 51 percent survived 5 or more years. Survival rates were similar across states and major industries. Bureau of Labor Statistics data on establishment age show that 49 percent of establishments survive 5 years or more; 34 percent survive 10 years or more; and 26 percent survive 15 years or more."

Source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Census Bureau, Business Dynamics Statistics; U.S. Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, BED.

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/sbfaq.pdf

I've bolded the parts that show failures. 1/4 businesses making it to the 15yr mark is failure.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I just showed you proof that most businesses fail and you agree.
Here's another one, if you didn't like the first.
"What is the survival rate for new firms?
Seven out of 10 new employer firms survive at least 2 years, half at least 5 years, a third at least 10 years, and a quarter stay in business 15 years or more. Census data report that 69 percent of new employer establishments born to new firms in 2000 survived at least 2 years, and 51 percent survived 5 or more years. Survival rates were similar across states and major industries. Bureau of Labor Statistics data on establishment age show that 49 percent of establishments survive 5 years or more; 34 percent survive 10 years or more; and 26 percent survive 15 years or more."
Source: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Census Bureau, Business Dynamics Statistics; U.S. Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, BED.
http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/sbfaq.pdf
I've bolded the parts that show failures. 1/4 businesses making it to the 15yr mark is failure.
I'm not sure why you're pressing a point which I agree with.
Building a successful business his difficult & risky.
And politicians like Obama make it harder still...except for those upon whom he showers stimulus & bail-out money.

Business success doesn't just fall in one's lab the way Nobel Peace Prizes do.
 
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`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Wellllll...I stand corrected.
My business is still in the pink, electronics design and repair.
Started in 1970, and retired, and the business went to my son.
Still going for.... gee....43 years, and a lot of tears.
And I want to thank all the other businesses and governments that provided me the opportunity to be successful in my endeavor. But because for all those other people that were there for me, I too might have failed.
All of my customers are my support, and a lot of them are still in business.
~
One can build a business, but one needs the community to support one.
Obama was right, it takes everyone.
Sooooo.....I guess I'm still corrected.
~
`mud
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
If you had been born in Somalia or North Korea, would you still be able to build that successful business which currently exists?

Humility is a virtue.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
[
quote=Eugene;3044606]If you had been born in Somalia or North Korea, would you still be able to build that successful business which currently exists?

Humility is a virtue.
[/QUOTE]

Nor would you freely have the privilege to travel highways to any other place in those countries, or the freedom to opine in open forums. Your point?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No businessman is an island.
Has anyone even claimed that we are? Even the most isolate business is still at least peninsular.
And Romney is also a big government type of politician, & very much in favor of the infrastructure of our economy.
This straw man controversy is perhaps the most dishonest thing about Obama's gaffe.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
These ideas aren't dumb, they are specious. First of all the companies you listed were built by individuals, not governments. Secondly, the roads were built in part with the money that I and my employees paid in taxes. Thirdly, like our illustrious leader said, there are certainly smarter people that worked almost as hard as I did, but the difference is they didn't take the risk. They didn't risk all their money, their homes, and their relationships to build a business. They didn't work 16-18 hour days as a norm. They didn't lay awake at night wondering how they were going to make a payroll by the end of the week. At no time in the last 20+ years did any government agent show up at my door and offer any help. Neither did any private individual offer a helping hand unless I paid them. So to Mr. Obama-and anyone else who may be wondering- I built this business, thank you.

It doesn't sound to me like you've ever been in business. Or at least, if you've have, you've never seen beyond your front door.
 
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