Judaism and Deicide

[Sleeppy]

We all stumble many times. We are human.

G-D knows this. He created us. He expects it.

If we were robots and didn't struggle to ignore evil temptation we would not get closer to G-D.

The religion's focus is to get closer to G-D.

Based on the what G-D told the jews in the Torah, worshipping jesus and worshipping a golden is calf is morally the same thing.

In both cases a false god is being worshipped which G-D has said numerous times not to do.

Let me show you something..

What is worship?

 

[CMike]

I rather not play semantics.

Your point?

 

[Sleeppy]

I rather not play semantics.

Your point?

You know my point. You can't righteously say that God, the Father, is not worshipped by Christians. The entire point of Christianity is to do just that. Foremost, we recognise that God is the Everlasting Father. And for this reason, which is alien to the current condition of Judaism, we are able to believe in brotherhood and equality beyond your father Abraham, who was flesh and blood. You believe that your flesh is your salvation. So you feel superior to your brothers, who are also sons of the Most High. And obviously, for that reason, you divide the One God, into more than One, differing between Israel and everyone else. And you place your flesh above God's Spirit.

 

[Flankerl]

You know my point. You can't righteously say that God, the Father, is not worshipped by Christians. The entire point of Christianity is to do just that. Foremost, we recognise that God is the Everlasting Father. And for this reason, which is alien to the current condition of Judaism, we are able to believe in brotherhood and equality beyond your father Abraham, who was flesh and blood. You believe that your flesh is your salvation. So you feel superior to your brothers, who are also sons of the Most High. And obviously, for that reason, you divide the One God, into more than One, differing between Israel and everyone else. And you place your flesh above God's Spirit.

I see. So thats why its a jewish idea that gentiles may experience what ever happens after we die and after the moshiach does what he does.

Because we obviously think that they are worth less than we are.

 

[Levite]

You know my point. You can't righteously say that God, the Father, is not worshipped by Christians. The entire point of Christianity is to do just that. Foremost, we recognise that God is the Everlasting Father. And for this reason, which is alien to the current condition of Judaism, we are able to believe in brotherhood and equality beyond your father Abraham, who was flesh and blood. You believe that your flesh is your salvation. So you feel superior to your brothers, who are also sons of the Most High. And obviously, for that reason, you divide the One God, into more than One, differing between Israel and everyone else. And you place your flesh above God's Spirit.

That is the most nonsensical thing I have seen in weeks. What a ridiculously twisted and warped view of Judaism. It's like the image of Judaism seen in a funhouse mirror.

 

[CMike]

I have a hard time responding because it's hard to sort out the gibberish.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This has been discussed sooo many times already.

Is it possible that the account of the Crucifixion might be altered?

I guess you are looking to hear alternates views or counterpoints to the general disagreement that Jews today have with the horrific crucifixion account. I think its important for you to understand there are several major schools of thought about it, but they all fall into two categories. 1. Christians that really, really believe that its symbolic and does not implicate Jews of the past in an actual crucifixion. 2. Christians that really, really believe that it happened pretty much the way its described.

The ones in group 1 can be Baptists, Methodists, Episcopals, Anglicans, Catholics, and many others. Sometimes entire churches believe that way. More often Christians are in group 2, and most churches believe that way currently. This also includes Baptist....Catholics etc. They don't extend hatred towards Jews, but they sometimes do believe that Jews are a wayward sect that ought to become Christian. There are variations, but occasionally missionary attempts are made in an effort to help Jews. As is usual in groups that don't talk to each other but that talk about each other, sometimes there are some very bad rumors.

 

[Sleeppy]

That is the most nonsensical thing I have seen in weeks. What a ridiculously twisted and warped view of Judaism. It's like the image of Judaism seen in a funhouse mirror.

I have a hard time responding because it's hard to sort out the gibberish.

If i'm not mistaken Levite, you still believe you have sole interpretive rights to God's word. I'm not in that funhouse mirror with you.

And CMike, I didn't expect a response. You say Christians worship a man, but then you call yourselves hypocrites. And so you won't define 'worship'.

 

[Sleeppy]

I see. So thats why its a jewish idea that gentiles may experience what ever happens after we die and after the moshiach does what he does.

Because we obviously think that they are worth less than we are.

It's not a Jewish idea. Never was. We all know death is coming. We all know things that preserve and produce life. And we should all know that there is a living God, who is the source of life and all of existence, and therefore eternal.

What made the idea that God rules over mankind, Jewish? You exalted each of your forefathers above their Source. So, you still don't recognise that God supercedes Abraham and Moses. And you believe the knowledge and salvation of God originate in flesh and blood, to be inherited.

But, as we can see, Abraham is not the promise of salvation from sin and death, nor the Messiah, whom you rightly say is the flesh of David. Salvation and life are of God's Spirit, and may rest on anyone regardless of what your flesh and blood says.

 

[Brickjectivity]

If i'm not mistaken Levite, you still believe you have sole interpretive rights to God's word. I'm not in that funhouse mirror with you.

That is a nasty and unfair statement.

 

[CMike]

WE are responsible for repenting for our own sins.

No being that got captured and killed has or will have anything to do with attoning for your sins.

 

[Levite]

If i'm not mistaken Levite, you still believe you have sole interpretive rights to God's word. I'm not in that funhouse mirror with you.

No, I said that Jews have the right to make authoritative interpretations over our own scriptures. If other religions believe that God has teachings for them, then they have the right to interpret those, and we do not.

And if non-Jews wish to make their own interpretations of Jewish scripture, that is their business. But they have no right to insist that their interpretations are the only legitimate ones, and that their understandings supersede Jewish interpretations and understandings even for Jews and Jewish life. That is simply intellectual imperialism and cultural theft, and an utter lack of regard for the beliefs of others.

 

[Awoon]

According to the Gospels, Jesus came into Jerusalem on a donkey, being greeted with joy. There are proclamations that Jesus is the Messiah. Five days later, however, Jesus is arrested and suddenly the Jews hate him. There was supposedly a tradition of releasing one criminal that day, and the Jews chose a highwayman over Jesus—a man whose only crimes were being nasty to some rabbis and lawyers. Pontius Pilate, who from historical records is a cruel man, tries to get Jesus released, and is even portrayed as washing his hands of his blood. When he asks what his punishment should be, the Jews shouted that he be crucified.

What's going on? These are the people that greeted Jesus as their Messiah? Something is very wrong.

Is it possible that the account of the Crucifixion might be altered?

So have you gotten a factual answer to your question? Some claim it made up, some the story as an if.

 

[Sleeppy]

No, I said that Jews have the right to make authoritative interpretations over our own scriptures. If other religions believe that God has teachings for them, then they have the right to interpret those, and we do not.

And if non-Jews wish to make their own interpretations of Jewish scripture, that is their business. But they have no right to insist that their interpretations are the only legitimate ones, and that their understandings supersede Jewish interpretations and understandings even for Jews and Jewish life. That is simply intellectual imperialism and cultural theft, and an utter lack of regard for the beliefs of others.

Except the culture you're referring to has been evolving and fluctuating since Adam. You are much different from Adam, though you are his flesh. And you are different from Noah. And from Abraham. And from Jacob.

What you and your true culture believe is that you own the culture and covenants of God, including those which involve every man and thing on Earth or in Heaven. There's the true theft.

 

[CMike]

Jews have been following the same teachings since the giving of the Torah.

They did not " evolve".

 

[Shiranui117]

Jews have been following the same teachings since the giving of the Torah.

They did not " evolve".

Jewish beliefs regarding the afterlife, Messiah and resurrection of the dead have certainly evolved.

 

[Flankerl]

It's not a Jewish idea. Never was. We all know death is coming. We all know things that preserve and produce life. And we should all know that there is a living God, who is the source of life and all of existence, and therefore eternal.

What made the idea that God rules over mankind, Jewish? You exalted each of your forefathers above their Source. So, you still don't recognise that God supercedes Abraham and Moses. And you believe the knowledge and salvation of God originate in flesh and blood, to be inherited.

But, as we can see, Abraham is not the promise of salvation from sin and death, nor the Messiah, whom you rightly say is the flesh of David. Salvation and life are of God's Spirit, and may rest on anyone regardless of what your flesh and blood says.

 

[CMike]

Jewish beliefs regarding the afterlife, Messiah and resurrection of the dead have certainly evolved.

Not at all.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jews have been following the same teachings since the giving of the Torah.

That is extraordinarily naive.

They did not " evolve".

Speak for yourself.

 

[CMike]

No, just for Judaism.