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Joseph The Prophet: Quran and Bible

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
The Story of Joseph the prophet is mentioned in Both Quran and Bible.
In Quran, a whole chapter is dedicated for the prophet Joseph. For no other prophet, a whole chapter is dedicated.

1. What is the difference between the story in Bible and Quran?

2. IF there is any difference, which one is logically more correct?

3. Why would a whole chapter of Quran is dedicated to this Prophet, and what is the importance of it, that needed to be repeated again?

4. What points and conclusions from the story can be seen?
 

cocolia42

Active Member
[FONT=&quot]You're asking a lot here. Joseph has always been one of my favorite prophets. There is so much to learn from his story regarding human qualities and the fact that God's will prevails regardless of human intervention. The reason a whole chapter is devoted to him in the Quran, if I remember correctly, is that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was asked by the Jews to tell them about Joseph. But his story was flawed so the whole, flawless story was revealed to him by Allah. One of the main differences between the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible speaks of Joseph's role in the birth of Israel as God's chosen people whereas the Quran speaks of Joseph's role as a Prophet.
[/FONT]
 

Bob Dixon

>implying
[FONT=&quot]One of the main differences between the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible speaks of Joseph's role in the birth of Israel as God's chosen people whereas the Quran speaks of Joseph's role as a Prophet.
[/FONT]

Is this difference perceived as a "flaw"?
 

cocolia42

Active Member
No, I'm not saying this difference is a flaw. I'm saying the story of Joseph that the Prophet Muhammad related to the Jews when asked was flawed. Whether he was telling the story just as we find it in Genesis, or whether Muhammad himself was mistaken I do not know. However, when you compare the account from Genesis to the account from the Qur'an there are certainly differences, for example,when Joseph tells his father about his dream about the 11 stars and the sun and moon bowing down to him, the Bible says his father rebuked him (Gen37:10) but the Qur'an says his father warned him not to tell his brothers because they might plot against him (12:5).
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
The narratives of Joseph can be found in Genesis 37-45 and in the Qur'an 12.4-102.
In both the Bible and the Qur'an, Joseph has a vision of eleven stars and the sun and the moon all bowing to him which he shares with his family.
(Genesis 37:9) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brothers, and said, "Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."
(Yusuf|12.4) Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"
Joseph's brothers became jealous that their father preferred Joseph over them, and so they form a plot to kill Joseph. However, one brother convinces them not to kill him but throw him down a well while they are alone. (Yusuf|12.8-10; Genesis 37:20-22) They agree. They subsequently lie to their father as to Joseph's whereabouts, covering his clothing in blood and asserting that a wild animal had attacked him. A caravan passing the well inspires the brothers to pull Joseph out of the well and to sell him as a slave to traders in the caravan. Later the traders sell him to a wealthy Egyptian. (Genesis 37:27-36; Yusuf|12.20-22)
Joseph grows up in the house of the Egyptian. When Joseph is a grown man, his master's wife tries to seduce him. Joseph resists and runs away, but is caught by other servants and reported to his master. The wife lies to her husband, saying that Joseph tried to rape her. (Yusuf|12.25; Gen. 39:12); At this point the two stories differ.

  • In the Bible, Joseph's master (named as Potiphar) refuses to believe Joseph's denial and imprisons him.
  • In the Qur'an, Joseph's master (who is only identified as "the Vizier") accepts the suggestion of another wise person to check Joseph's tunic. If it is torn from the front, the wise person asserts, it will prove Joseph a liar; but if it is torn from the back (as proves to be the case), Joseph will be vindicated and the master's wife proven a liar and an adulteress. The Vizier reprimands his wife, and permits Joseph to remain in his household. However, during a subsequent dinner party thrown by the Vizier's wife to prove the reason of her lust for Joseph, Joseph is commanded to appear before the wife and her ladyfriends; they cut their hands with knives out of lust for him, and although the Vizier again recognizes Joseph's innocence, he orders him imprisoned nevertheless.
In prison, Joseph meets two men. One has a dream of making wine and the other dreams of carrying a stack of breads that birds are eating. Joseph tells the first that he will serve the Pharaoh again and the second will be executed. Both things happen, precisely as Joseph foretold. Although Joseph asks the first man to bring his name and unjust imprisonment to the attention of the Pharaoh, the first man quickly forgets about him once restored to the royal favor.
Sometime thereafter, Pharaoh had a dream:
(Genesis 41:17-19) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, In my dream, behold, I stood upon the bank of the river; 18 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven kine, fatfleshed and well favoured; and they fed in a meadow; And, behold, seven other kine came up after them, poor and very ill favoured and leanfleshed, such as I never saw in all the land of Egypt for badness:
(Yusuf|12.43) The king (of Egypt) said: "I do see (in a vision) seven fat kine, whom seven lean ones devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! Expound to me my vision if it be that ye can interpret visions."
Pharaoh's cup-bearer, who had been previously imprisoned with Joseph, suddenly remembers his promise and tells Pharaoh about the man who foretold his own restoration to favor. Pharaoh sent to the prison, asking Joseph to interpret his dream. In the Qur'anic account, Joseph insists that the Vizier's wife vindicate him before Pharaoh before Joseph will agree to do so (this is not mentioned in the Bible); Pharaoh summons the Vizier's wife, who admits her lies about Joseph and proclaims his innocence. The Qur'an now rejoins the Biblical narrative, where Joseph reveals the meaning of Pharaoh's dream: Egypt will have seven years of good crops followed by seven years of famine and the famine will be worse than the abundance. Pharaoh rewarded Joseph by giving him charge over the store houses and the entire land of Egypt.


In the Qur'an it is important to note, that unlike the references to Pharaoh in the account of Moses, the account of Joseph refers to the Egyptian ruler as a "king", not a pharaoh.

During the famine, Joseph's brothers came to Egypt to buy food, but the youngest was left with their father. While Joseph recognized them, they did not recognize him. He demanded that they return with the missing brother. The brothers return home and find that Joseph had hidden in their packs more than they paid for. They asked their father if they might return with the youngest brother. Reluctantly, their father allows this. They return, and after some further incidents Joseph ultimately reveals himself to his brothers. (Genesis 45:1; Yusuf| 12.90).
In the Bible, the missing brother is Benjamin, Joseph's only full blood brother. The others are half-brothers.

Source: Wikipedia what i found the most interesting is highlighted above and i addressed it below.


Bible:

According to the book of Genesis, the king who ruled Egypt in Joseph's(p) time was also referred to as Pharaoh. The king is addressed as Pharaoh ninety times. The following examples are take from Genesis 41:

So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought from the dungeon. When he had shaved and changed his clothes, he came before Pharaoh. [41:14]

Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "The dreams of Pharaoh are one and the same. God has revealed to Pharaoh what he is about to do." [41:25]

Joseph was thirty years old when he entered the service of Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from Pharaoh's presence and travelled throughout Egypt. [41:46]


Quran:

The sovereign who ruled Egypt during Joseph's(p) day is named "King" (Arabic, Malik); whereas the Bible has named him "Pharaoh" as seen above and below.

The king (of Egypt) said: "I do see (in a vision) seven fat cows, whom seven lean ones devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! expound to me my vision, if it be that ye can interpret visions." [Qur'an 12:43]

They said: "We miss the great beaker of the king; for him who produces it, is (the reward of) a camel-load; I will be bound by it." [Qur'an 12:72]


Guess what in the time of Josephus(p) there were no Pharaohs like in the time of Moses(p) wherein the Quran is right and the Bible is wrong. Both societies didn't know this in there time we have just discovered this with the archaeology founding in Egypt so you make the decision what is more reliable.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
There are many interesting points, that I think are noticable, and could be concluded from the story of joseph.

1. The dreams have interpretations, which are like a symbolic representation. He saw stars, moon, sun,the interpretation of these were 11 brothers, mother, father. The other saw caws, it turned out, that number of caws represent the number of years.
a significant part of the Bible are based on dreams and visions of men, which means, these are to be interpreted symbolically, and not literally.

2. In Quran 12:97-98

They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners."

He (Jacob) said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

So, the sons, asked Jacob, who was a Prophet, to ask God to forgive them. Jacob, didn't say, they should ask God to forgive them, otherwise it is shiirk, but rather He agreed to ask God to forgive them. Which means, the Prophets can intercede for people. jacob was a prophet and knew religious practice correctly.

3. He was God, who gave such a high station to His prophet Joseph, so, everyone bowed before Him. Which means, God is capable of giving High station to His prophets as He wishes.

4. Quran 12:111

"There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe."




....
...
..
.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
There are many interesting points, that I think are noticable, and could be concluded from the story of joseph.

1. The dreams have interpretations, which are like a symbolic representation. He saw stars, moon, sun,the interpretation of these were 11 brothers, mother, father. The other saw caws, it turned out, that number of caws represent the number of years.
a significant part of the Bible are based on dreams and visions of men, which means, these are to be interpreted symbolically, and not literally.

2. In Quran 12:97-98

They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners."

He (Jacob) said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

So, the sons, asked Jacob, who was a Prophet, to ask God to forgive them. Jacob, didn't say, they should ask God to forgive them, otherwise it is shiirk, but rather He agreed to ask God to forgive them. Which means, the Prophets can intercede for people. jacob was a prophet and knew religious practice correctly.

3. He was God, who gave such a high station to His prophet Joseph, so, everyone bowed before Him. Which means, God is capable of giving High station to His prophets as He wishes.

4. Quran 12:111

"There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe."




....
...
..
.

Except for the intercession; I mostly agree with you.
 

cocolia42

Active Member
The narratives of Joseph can be found in Genesis 37-45 and in the Qur'an 12.4-102.
In both the Bible and the Qur'an, Joseph has a vision of eleven stars and the sun and the moon all bowing to him which he shares with his family.
(Genesis 37:9) And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brothers, and said, "Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."
(Yusuf|12.4) Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"
Joseph's brothers became jealous that their father preferred Joseph over them, and so they form a plot to kill Joseph. However, one brother convinces them not to kill him but throw him down a well while they are alone. (Yusuf|12.8-10; Genesis 37:20-22) They agree. They subsequently lie to their father as to Joseph's whereabouts, covering his clothing in blood and asserting that a wild animal had attacked him. A caravan passing the well inspires the brothers to pull Joseph out of the well and to sell him as a slave to traders in the caravan. Later the traders sell him to a wealthy Egyptian. (Genesis 37:27-36; Yusuf|12.20-22)
Let me also mention:

  • In the Bible, Joseph told his dream about the 11 stars to both his father and brothers and his father rebuked him. (Gen 37:10)
  • In the Qur'an, Joseph only told his father about the dream and his father warned him not to tell his brothers or they might be jealous and plot against him. (12:4-5)
  • in the Bible, when Jacob's sons told him Joseph must have been attacked by an animal, Jacob believed his sons, tore his clothes, and mourned for a long time. (Gen 37:33-35)
  • In the Qur'an, when Jacob's sons told him Joseph must have been attacked by an animal, Jacob did not believe his sons. He suspected that they plotted against him. (12:17-18)
  • In the Qur'an, when Joseph was at the bottom of the well, Joseph received a revelation from God. (12:15)
These points go to show the Prophethood of both Jacob and Joseph in the Qur'an. As far as I know, Jewish tradition does not hold Joseph as one of the 55 prophets.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
[FONT=&quot]You're asking a lot here. Joseph has always been one of my favorite prophets. There is so much to learn from his story regarding human qualities and the fact that God's will prevails regardless of human intervention. The reason a whole chapter is devoted to him in the Quran, if I remember correctly, is that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was asked by the Jews to tell them about Joseph. But his story was flawed so the whole, flawless story was revealed to him by Allah. One of the main differences between the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible speaks of Joseph's role in the birth of Israel as God's chosen people whereas the Quran speaks of Joseph's role as a Prophet. [/FONT]

Even in Bible, it says, God sent Joseph to His people, which means practically he was a Prophet, eventhough He is not explicitly refered as a prophet.
Quran also does not have the names of all the prophets, that God ever sent.

Gen.:


for God did send me before you to preserve life. 45:6 For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt. 45:9


 

cocolia42

Active Member
Even in Bible, it says, God sent Joseph to His people, which means practically he was a Prophet, eventhough He is not explicitly refered as a prophet.
Quran also does not have the names of all the prophets, that God ever sent.

Gen.:


for God did send me before you to preserve life. 45:6 For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. 45:7 And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt. 45:9


I agree with you. My point was that Jews do not consider Joseph to be a prophet. They claim 48 male prophets and 7 female prophets. Joseph is not one of them. In my opinion, they are wrong for not including Joseph but that's neither here nor there. The Qur'an spends so much time on Joseph for this reason, to emphasize the fact that he is a true prophet.
 
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