Jews, Christians, and Muslims only: "The Five Books of Moses"?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Wikipedia: Mosaic Authorship begins ...

Mosaic authorship is the traditional belief that the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, were dictated to Moses by God. The books do not name any author, as authorship was not considered important by the society that produced them, and it was only after Jews came into intense contact with author-centric Hellenistic culture in the late Second Temple period that the rabbis began to find authors for their scriptures.[2] The tradition that Moses was this author probably began with the law-code of Deuteronomy, and was then gradually extended until Moses, as the central character, came to be regarded not just as the mediator of law but as author of both laws and narrative.​

A bit later it notes:

Biblical scholars today agree almost unanimously that the Torah is the work of many authors over many centuries. A major factor in this rejection of the tradition of Mosaic authorship was the development of the documentary hypothesis, which understood the Pentateuch as a composite work made up of four "sources," or documents, compiled over centuries in a process that was not concluded until long after Moses' death. ,,,​

I'd like to know where you stand on this subject.

Please, if none of the options apply to you, just accept the fact that the thread was not meant for you and move on.

 

[Vouthon]

Christian and human authorship of the Pentateuch for me

The received opinion in the Christian tradition, until modernity, had been that the Torah - the five books from Genesis onwards - were of Mosaic origin, but I am strongly convinced that this is no longer tenable owing to advances in scholarship.

My feeling today is that most Catholics no longer hold to Mosaic authorship, at least from the conversations I've personally had and what I read in Catholic popular forums / journals discussing the Bible.

Edit: I should add, that I do believe the Torah is divinely inspired, just that it wasn't actually written by Moses but rather by a collection of inspired authors writing different accounts that later scribes have edited together into a coherent whole.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Jesus Christ said Moses wrote them. (John 5:45-47) Paul said Moses wrote them. (Rom. 9:5)

Therefore I have no doubt that God is the Author and Moses the human writer of the first five books of the Bible.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Brickjectivity]

Openly declare? I think it is inspired through Jews who are represented by Moses and the prophets. There are several Christian texts to refer to which indicate to me this is also an idea in early Christian writings. Tangent to this I think that Jewish saints (such as the good prophets) are referred to as angels, and they are depicted with wings in paintings. Here are a couple of verses which suggest this to me:

Hebrews 2:2, 2:16 The message comes through angels, and it specifically leaves out 'Moses' the main character of the story. He must be included, yet his name is not mentioned.
Rom 1:2 says the gospel is promised through the prophets. It doesn't say angels, but the two terms are being used to describe the same duties. It does not say 'Moses' and instead says 'Prophets', but Moses is one of the prophets. Yet in the story of the birth of Jesus his coming is announced by a choir of angels. Maybe its not convincing to anyone else, but I'm pretty convinced.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Wikipedia: Mosaic Authorship begins ...

Mosaic authorship is the traditional belief that the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, were dictated to Moses by God. The books do not name any author, as authorship was not considered important by the society that produced them, and it was only after Jews came into intense contact with author-centric Hellenistic culture in the late Second Temple period that the rabbis began to find authors for their scriptures.[2] The tradition that Moses was this author probably began with the law-code of Deuteronomy, and was then gradually extended until Moses, as the central character, came to be regarded not just as the mediator of law but as author of both laws and narrative.​

A bit later it notes:

Biblical scholars today agree almost unanimously that the Torah is the work of many authors over many centuries. A major factor in this rejection of the tradition of Mosaic authorship was the development of the documentary hypothesis, which understood the Pentateuch as a composite work made up of four "sources," or documents, compiled over centuries in a process that was not concluded until long after Moses' death. ,,,​

I'd like to know where you stand on this subject.

Please, if none of the options apply to you, just accept the fact that the thread was not meant for you and move on.

Muslim and a mixture of Divine Authorship, as transmitted through Moses (pbuh), and human authorship.

 

[Kenny]

I chose Jewish - Mosaic authorship (not sure how it differs from Christian Mosaic)

I think it is possible that they were written by multiple people but at the order of Moses and during Moses' life. So, in either case, it is still attributed by at to Moses

Modern day scholars sometime go beyond their pay-grade. (Example) - If what I wrote at age 21 to the college board - what I wrote at 40 and what I am writing in my first book today, and someone looked at and analyzed it 5,000 years later, they would say it was written by 3 different people.

 

[metis]

I chose Christian/Human Authorship. Moses may have been at least somewhat of an inspiration, but because of the relatively late writing of the texts vis-a-vis the captivity in Egypt (if true, and I'm far from sure that it is), it would have to have been passed down over centuries.

Or as Joseph Campbell oft said, "...and the myth became the reality". [a reminder that "myth" does not mean falsehood] .

 

[Rival]

I chose Jewish - Mosaic authorship (not sure how it differs from Christian Mosaic)

I think it is possible that they were written by multiple people but at the order of Moses and during Moses' life. So, in either case, it is still attributed by at to Moses

Modern day scholars sometime go beyond their pay-grade. (Example) - If what I wrote at age 21 to the college board - what I wrote at 40 and what I am writing in my first book today, and someone looked at and analyzed it 5,000 years later, they would say it was written by 3 different people.

You're Christian who accepts Mosaic authorship. That's what you needed to choose.

 

[Kenny]

You're Christian who accepts Mosaic authorship. That's what you needed to choose.

But it is Jewish scriptures.

 

[Rival]

But it is Jewish scriptures.

The poll is 'I identify as [Jewish/Christian/Muslim] and I generally agree with [Mosaic authorship/human authorship].

 

[Kenny]

Wikipedia: Mosaic Authorship begins ...

Mosaic authorship is the traditional belief that the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, were dictated to Moses by God. The books do not name any author, as authorship was not considered important by the society that produced them, and it was only after Jews came into intense contact with author-centric Hellenistic culture in the late Second Temple period that the rabbis began to find authors for their scriptures.[2] The tradition that Moses was this author probably began with the law-code of Deuteronomy, and was then gradually extended until Moses, as the central character, came to be regarded not just as the mediator of law but as author of both laws and narrative.​

A bit later it notes:

Biblical scholars today agree almost unanimously that the Torah is the work of many authors over many centuries. A major factor in this rejection of the tradition of Mosaic authorship was the development of the documentary hypothesis, which understood the Pentateuch as a composite work made up of four "sources," or documents, compiled over centuries in a process that was not concluded until long after Moses' death. ,,,​

I'd like to know where you stand on this subject.

Please, if none of the options apply to you, just accept the fact that the thread was not meant for you and move on.

And the reason for the question?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And the reason for the question?

I was curiosity about (a) how many people would take the poll, and (b) the poll results. As it stands, the thread seems to have attracted very little interest.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I voted Christian / human authorship.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Wikipedia: Mosaic Authorship begins ...

Mosaic authorship is the traditional belief that the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, were dictated to Moses by God. The books do not name any author, as authorship was not considered important by the society that produced them, and it was only after Jews came into intense contact with author-centric Hellenistic culture in the late Second Temple period that the rabbis began to find authors for their scriptures.[2] The tradition that Moses was this author probably began with the law-code of Deuteronomy, and was then gradually extended until Moses, as the central character, came to be regarded not just as the mediator of law but as author of both laws and narrative.​

A bit later it notes:

Biblical scholars today agree almost unanimously that the Torah is the work of many authors over many centuries. A major factor in this rejection of the tradition of Mosaic authorship was the development of the documentary hypothesis, which understood the Pentateuch as a composite work made up of four "sources," or documents, compiled over centuries in a process that was not concluded until long after Moses' death. ,,,​

I'd like to know where you stand on this subject.

Please, if none of the options apply to you, just accept the fact that the thread was not meant for you and move on.

I personally don't think the question is important. What does it matter who set the Torah down onto paper if it is of God, and defines us as a people? Personally I agree with the scholar's view that the Torah has had many authors, beginning with the four of the documentary hypothesis. (Likely, one of those author's was Moshe himself.) For one thing, Moshe simply can't record his own death.

Sign me as:
Totally Devoted to Torah

 

[Jedster]

I personally don't think the question is important. What does it matter who set the Torah down onto paper if it is of God, and defines us as a people? Personally I agree with the scholar's view that the Torah has had many authors, beginning with the four of the documentary hypothesis. (Likely, one of those author's was Moshe himself.) For one thing, Moshe simply can't record his own death.

Sign me as:
Totally Devoted to Torah

I put Jewish/Human authorship although now I am not so certain because of all the disobedience and sinning of the Hebrews/Jews,would they really write that about themselves?(rhetorical).

Being brought up in an orthodox community, I never doubted that Moshe wrote about his own death, after all it was God who dictated the Torah and with God anything is possible.(I am a happy apatheist now).
Anyway, that's how I thought about it at the time.

 

[pearl]

I will go with Jewish/human authorship since I do not believe that God 'dictated' the Pentateuch. Neither do I believe that Moses authored the entire Pentateuch, but it is a reflection of Mosaic teaching in its entirety.


The JEDP theory seeks to understand the authorship of the Pentateuch in light of the Documentary Hypothesis. This view believes that the Pentateuch represents the conflation of four different sources rather than the work of primarily one author, traditionally Moses. The results of Source Criticism first proposed two authors (or sources) for the Pentateuch supposedly distinguishable by the use of the terms Yahweh and Elohim. Two additional sources were later proposed as P for Priestly, and D for Deuteronomic resulting in the JEDP theory of authorship, most notably associated with German scholar Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918).

JEDP are initials representing the four hypothetical sources as follows:

• Jawist (or Yahwist, from Yahweh) - describes God as Yahweh, starting in Gen 2:4, it includes much of Genesis and parts of Exodus and Numbers. It is dated around 850 B.C.
• • Elohist (from Elohim) - primarily describes God as El or Elohim. Starting with Gen 15, it covers material similar to "J". It is dated around 750 B.C. (J and E are said to be difficult to distinguish).
• • Deuteronomy - a different source (or author) is associated with Deuteronomy alone, and is usually dated around 621 B.C.
• • Priestly - this encompasses writings scattered from Gen 1 through the notice of Moses' death at the end of Deuteronomy. It is supposedly dated around 500 B.C.
• There was a very helpful color chart by Eugene McAlee which outlined the individual sources through the Pentateuch.

 

[Rival]

I will go with Jewish/human authorship since I do not believe that God 'dictated' the Pentateuch. Neither do I believe that Moses authored the entire Pentateuch, but it is a reflection of Mosaic teaching in its entirety.


The JEDP theory seeks to understand the authorship of the Pentateuch in light of the Documentary Hypothesis. This view believes that the Pentateuch represents the conflation of four different sources rather than the work of primarily one author, traditionally Moses. The results of Source Criticism first proposed two authors (or sources) for the Pentateuch supposedly distinguishable by the use of the terms Yahweh and Elohim. Two additional sources were later proposed as P for Priestly, and D for Deuteronomic resulting in the JEDP theory of authorship, most notably associated with German scholar Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918).

JEDP are initials representing the four hypothetical sources as follows:

• Jawist (or Yahwist, from Yahweh) - describes God as Yahweh, starting in Gen 2:4, it includes much of Genesis and parts of Exodus and Numbers. It is dated around 850 B.C.
• • Elohist (from Elohim) - primarily describes God as El or Elohim. Starting with Gen 15, it covers material similar to "J". It is dated around 750 B.C. (J and E are said to be difficult to distinguish).
• • Deuteronomy - a different source (or author) is associated with Deuteronomy alone, and is usually dated around 621 B.C.
• • Priestly - this encompasses writings scattered from Gen 1 through the notice of Moses' death at the end of Deuteronomy. It is supposedly dated around 500 B.C.
• There was a very helpful color chart by Eugene McAlee which outlined the individual sources through the Pentateuch.

I'm pretty sure you are a Catholic, no?

 

[Harel13]

I'm pretty sure you are a Catholic, no?

Rival, stop stopping people from coming over to our side...

 

[pearl]

I'm pretty sure you are a Catholic, no?

And the reason you ask?

 

[rosends]

And the reason you ask?

The first half asks what you identify as. If you choose "Jewish/Human Authorship" then you are saying you identify as Jewish, as opposed to choosing "Christian/Human Authorship" which would mean you identify as a Christian.