Jews call for the dismantling of the Zionist state of Israel

[Revoltingest]

As I said above, the solution is for you to withdraw the physical presence of your troops and your economic enslavement. Once you can do these two simple things other societies can begin acting as if it is a reality and not your fantasy.

Instead, I argue that it is fantasy for you to deny the large scale deleterious effects of US policy regarding
Israel, & its neighbors. But I agree that we should withdraw militarily, & also end our largesse.

Right now, countless of nations (including mine) are married to yours whether they really want to or not, these countries play your game. Release us and stop playing Roman Empire. American McDonald culture cannot fit the shoes of Cicero and Marcus Aurelius anyhow.

"McDonald culture"? What a strange insult.
(I think I've eaten at one twice in the last 60 years.
I prefer Subway...whole wheat buns & lots'o veggies.
Best & healthiest fast food on any turnpike or expressway.)
Anyway, yes...I'd like to see Americastan do just as you suggest.

There are too many states caught between the US, Russia, China, and an aspiring EU and their chess orgy for oil. There is no point making these states into boogeymen while they are the pawns of the major players who are fortunate enough to have human numbers on their side.

I'm not the one going on & on about "boogeymen" here.
In fact, I'm blaming my own country (ie, Americastan, not Revoltingistan).

I see the jester is back.

It wouldn't hurt you to develop a sense of mirth & equanimity, bub.

 

[columbus]

As I said above, the solution is for you to withdraw the physical presence of your troops and your economic enslavement. Once you can do these two simple things other societies can begin acting as if it is a reality and not your fantasy. Right now, countless of nations (including mine) are married to yours whether they really want to or not, these countries play your game. Release us and stop playing Roman Empire. American McDonald culture cannot fit the shoes of Cicero and Marcus Aurelius anyhow.
There are too many states caught between the US, Russia, China, and an aspiring EU and their chess orgy for oil. There is no point making these states into boogeymen while they are the pawns of the major players who are fortunate enough to have human numbers on their side.

What you don't seem to grasp is that I agree with this. I want the US to stop meddling in global affairs except for humanitarian aid.

A huge tragedy of the Iraqi invasion was the waste of the opportunity to really improve US security. We could have sent out tens of thousands of trained professionals to fight a war against unsafe drinking water and illiteracy and AIDS, with a gigantic budget. Instead we just knocked off a tinpot dictator who happened to control a lot of petroleum

There is a great quote from Eisenhower. To paraphrase: "every bullet and warship is a theft from the poor"

Tom

 

[Pink Top Hat]

It was not "illegal" as 2/3 of the U.N. authorized the division whereas only 1/6 was for "Israel".



Most are not "atheists", and there's a big difference between "unaffiliated" and "atheism".



Not true again. Matter of fact, the U.N. provision had it that any Palestinians that were displaced could receive compensation, and this was to be financed actually through mostly U.S. funds.



So, you honestly believe that Jews weren't attacked previously there prior to becoming a state? Aren't you even aware of the fact that we couldn't even visit our holy sites in Jerusalem when the Jordanians controlled it? Aren't you aware that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem praised Hitler's dealing with the "Final Solution", and promised there'd been Jewish blood spilled throughout the area?



As before, it was not "stolen", so you simply are not telling the truth, plus the fact that you have created your own "history". Secondly, the partitioning of a former country is not at all unusual in history, as we've seen this with India, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia, for examples, and a great many people in those countries had to move.

same old hasbara

you'll be telling me that Palestine did not exist next

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Are you opposed to officially Islamic states, such as Saudi Arabia whereas no churches or synagogues can be built under their law, and yet we find many churches and mosques in Israel?

1. What attraction is there for any other religion apart from Islam to travel or live or invade and steal Saudi Arabia?

2. Saudi hold no holy sites for Jews or Christians so what's the problem them calling it an Islamic country if they want to?

3. Palestine however is a Holy Land for all 3 Abrahamic religions and has religious sites for all 3 so cannot be compared to Saudi Arabia which has only one. Palestine should be filled with Mosques and Synagogues and Churches, real Jews and Christians and Muslims . That's the difference!

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Which is why the last synagogue got destroyed in Algeria in 1977?



Absolutely false.



False again, and I've been in the al-Aqsa mosque when there's been Muslems there and I saw no such "force" against them. Have you ever been there?



What are you talking about?



Again, false, and it begs the question who's been feeding you this utter nonsense? Maybe instead of posting out of nothing but sheer ignorance on this subject you actually might want to either visit there are study from non-radicalized sources.

all false

Tell me this

I am Egyptian Muslim. Can I fly into Jerusalem airport tomorrow , walk out the terminal and get on a bus to Al Aqsa and pray in Al Aqsa Mosque on Friday ?

be careful before you answer.....God hates the liar

 

[metis]

I realize that the money enhances the profitability of US weapons manufacturing. It also buys votes from US Zionists. It keeps a nuclear armed proxy army close to the oil fields.

None of this impresses me much.

It also raises the deficit, costing the taxpayer more than double once the interest is counted. It presents security risks. It damages US credibility.
Can anybody take seriously US opposition to Iran's nuclear weapons program claiming we want to keep such weapons out of the ME when we are subsidizing the current owner of such?

Tom

Yes, I can see why it doesn't impress you much, and that is because you really do not understand what we have gained from it, plus that all foreign aid only comprises something like 1/2 of 1% of the total U.S. budget. The fact of the matter is that Israel is an extremely reliable partner, so abandoning our closest make sense how?

Please do the research.

 

[metis]

This is a shallow dismissal. Let go of the anger, ... Again, [Caladan] countered this view with naught but name calling.

Will you kindly look up the word "hypocrisy" with the above, and maybe take your own advice? There's been reasons why I have put you on my ignore list twice, and it wasn't because you were so level-headed and charming.

 

[metis]

I'm only focused on Israel because it is the OP. There is plenty of violence in the world and the US contributions appall me. But we're hardly the only ones..
I want the US to stop supporting violence and Israel is just one place to start.

Tom

How about Afghanistan instead? How about drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and elsewhere? And why would you start with Israel?

 

[metis]

1. What attraction is there for any other religion apart from Islam to travel or live or invade and steal Saudi Arabia?

That's not the issue, and you should know that.

2. Saudi hold no holy sites for Jews or Christians so what's the problem them calling it an Islamic country if they want to?

And what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish country if that's what they want to be called?

3. Palestine however is a Holy Land for all 3 Abrahamic religions and has religious sites for all 3 so cannot be compared to Saudi Arabia which has only one. Palestine should be filled with Mosques and Synagogues and Churches, real Jews and Christians and Muslims . That's the difference!

Well, guess what: Israel fits that bill. But there's a problem, namely that by law, Jews cannot live in the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, so who's doing most of the discriminating?

Seems like maybe you should be cleaning up your own house first before telling others what they must do.

 

[columbus]

Yes, I can see why it doesn't impress you much, and that is because you really do not understand what we have gained from it, plus that all foreign aid only comprises something like 1/2 of 1% of the total U.S. budget. The fact of the matter is that Israel is an extremely reliable partner, so abandoning our closest make sense how?

Please do the research.

Who is this "we"?
What makes you think I haven't done any research?
What makes you think Israel is a reliable partner, and why does that justify putting US citizens in debt to buy Israel weapons to use on their neighbors?

Do you even read my posts?

Tom

 

[metis]

all false

Tell me this

I am Egyptian Muslim. Can I fly into Jerusalem airport tomorrow , walk out the terminal and get on a bus to Al Aqsa and pray in Al Aqsa Mosque on Friday ?

be careful before you answer.....God hates the liar

Apply for a visa, fly to Israel, and travel to the mosque and the Dome, as many Muslems do. How do I know this? From experience. Now, my guess is that one could fly into Jordan and do the same, but that I can't verify from experience.

Now, let me point out that Allah hates a "liar", I would assume, so maybe it's best you be careful how you respond.

 

[metis]

Who is this "we"?
What makes you think I haven't done any research?
What makes you think Israel is a reliable partner, and why does that justify putting US citizens in debt to buy Israel weapons to use on their neighbors?

Do you even read my posts?

Tom

Because you've posted nothing but nonsense. A person may have a different opinion on whatever, but if they've actually done the research, they won't post nonsense.

 

[columbus]

How about Afghanistan instead? How about drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and elsewhere? And why would you start with Israel?

I'm talking about Israel because it is what this thread is about. Why is that hard to understand?

But to be frank, Afghanistan and drone strikes are a very different subject. Those are targeting violent people who attacked the US. I'm still opposed to violence in general, but I understand those better even though I don't think they're the best method of combatting violence.

Tom

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Very confusing to say the least. My question; is this really a religious debat?

 

[columbus]

Because you've posted nothing but nonsense. A person may have a different opinion on whatever, but if they've actually done the research, they won't post nonsense.

Since you think opposing US violence and imperialism is nonsense I'm getting to know you better.

I'm also noticing that you rarely respond to what is posted. Instead you just ignore it and attack the poster. That is called the ad hominem fallacy by educated people.

Tom

 

[Pink Top Hat]

That's not the issue, and you should know that.

it was you who brought Saudi into the debate not me

And what's wrong with Israel being a Jewish country if that's what they want to be called?

because it is not and that's the difference

Well, guess what: Israel fits that bill. But there's a problem, namely that by law, Jews cannot live in the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, so who's doing most of the discriminating?

nice try but nobody is fooled LOL

Seems like maybe you should be cleaning up your own house first before telling others what they must do.

Seems like the zionist terrorists should all go back home to Bulgaria and Poland and wherever else they ran away from Hitler from now that he's dead, and let the Palestinians return to their houses and land that the zionists all stole and terrorized them at the point of a gun to evacuate or does your history books not mention Al Ramla etc etc etc?

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Apply for a visa, fly to Israel, and travel to the mosque and the Dome, as many Muslems do. How do I know this? From experience. Now, my guess is that one could fly into Jordan and do the same, but that I can't verify from experience.

Now, let me point out that Allah hates a "liar", I would assume, so maybe it's best you be careful how you respond.

Then your experience was in a dream.

You only have to switch on the TV and watch each Friday what really happens at Al Aqsa. IDF thugs trampling deliberately with their muddy boots on the prayer rugs to deliberately inflame and provoke Muslims is only one of the disgusting behaviours that we see on our screens and you deny happen but luckily we have cameras and TV crews filming the crimes and plenty of evidence and photos etc etc etc etc but carry on lying ...............makes no difference to me

 

[metis]

I'm talking about Israel because it is what this thread is about. Why is that hard to understand?

But to be frank, Afghanistan and drone strikes are a very different subject. Those are targeting violent people who attacked the US. I'm still opposed to violence in general, but I understand those better even though I don't think they're the best method of combatting violence.

Tom

Apparently you're unaware of the fact that those who have opposed Israel consider the U.S. to be the worst of the two, and this actually has only a bit to do with our support for Israel. To so many in that area of the world, the belief is that the only reason why Americans are so interested to the point for us to get involved is because of one word: oil. And frankly, I can't blame them for being upset with us as this is actually quite true.

If you actually spend time in the Middle East, you can understand why there's such a dichotomy with how so many there view America. Some feel were just greedy jerks and some others admire America because of its freedom and wealth. Some love democracy and modernization, while some others more value tradition and distrust democracy.

Since Israel and the U.S. so much rely on each other, and since Israeli interests are very often our interests, for us to abandon Israel, our closest ally there, would be outrageously stupid because since when have isolationism solved much of anything? If we need to intervene, we need allies there. Some of our technology is from Israel, such as the new ground-to-ground missile that's involved in anti-tank warfare that was developed by the Israelis. Our Patriot missile system uses joint Israeli-American technology. The Intel facility there is unbelievable. Etc.

To abandon an ally like that would send shock waves towards our other allies in that how much can they rely on being partners with America? We promised that we would help defend Israel back when the U.N. partition was decided upon, so now we are going to ignore that? And what about all the Americans that spend so much time in Israel to the point whereas you hear English there all the time?

You may want isolationism because your money is far too important for you to spend that 1/2 of 1% on foreign aid, but I prefer to keep friends and allies in various parts of the world.

So, believe in what you want to believe, but I simply do not agree with your approach.

 

[Pink Top Hat]

The facts as recent as yesterday contradicting the hasbara lies

Israeli authorities on Tuesday closed a number of Al-Aqsa Mosque compound gates and prevented Palestinian worshippers under the age of 50 from entering, a Palestinian official said.
"The Israeli police suddenly closed some of the 14 gates of Al-Aqsa Mosque compound," Sheikh Azzam al-Khatib, director-general of Muslim endowments and Al-Aqsa affairs in Al-Quds (occupied East Jerusalem), told Anadolu Agency.


The move came as several Jewish extremist groups urged followers to storm the holy site, he said.


According to al-Khatib, the Israeli police also imposed restrictions on the entry of women to the holy compound.

 

[metis]

it was you who brought Saudi into the debate not me

because it is not and that's the difference

nice try but nobody is fooled LOL

Seems like the zionist terrorists should all go back home to Bulgaria and Poland and wherever else they ran away from Hitler from now that he's dead, and let the Palestinians return to their houses and land that the zionists all stole and terrorized them at the point of a gun to evacuate or does your history books not mention Al Ramla etc etc etc?

Believe in what you want to believe. And, btw, my experiences were real as I was at both the al-Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock twice, including taking a guided tour with a Muslem guide back in 1998. Now, what's your "experience"?

Now, as far as I'm concerned, I do agree with a previous poster that maybe it's time to get back to the OP.