Jewish Bridegroom --- חתן

[John D. Brey]

One does not need to be a Jew to detect and dismiss drivel.

. . . But what's considered drivel by a non-Jew is not necessarily so for a Jew. . . So in a sense you prove my point. If you understood what I've said from a Jewish perspective, it wouldn't appear to be drivel. So you haven't, which justifies what I said about only a Jew appreciating what's being said.


John

 

[Tumah]

Apparently when you read Judaism through the lens of Christianity...you get Christianity. Isn't that odd?

 

[Tumah]

. . . But what's considered drivel by a non-Jew is not necessarily so for a Jew. . . So in a sense you prove my point. If you understood what I've said from a Jewish perspective, it wouldn't appear to be drivel. So you haven't, which justifies what I said about only a Jew appreciating what's being said.


John

You're twisting Jewish concepts to fit your needs. Of course Jews will be familiar with the concepts. And if you were using Arabic concepts, surprisingly you'd probably find Muslims familiar with the terminology. That doesn't lend you any voracity. It just means you read a book.

 

[John D. Brey]

Apparently when you read Judaism through the lens of Christianity...you get Christianity. Isn't that odd?

When you read Judaism through the lens of Jewish law you get the outer shell without the heart and soul. The law is not the heart and soul. It's the parameters, the wine-skin, perhaps the heart without the blood. The spirit of Judaism is the blood that brings the law to life. The law is the servant of the spirit of Judaism, such that when Jews are slaves to the law, there is no spirit.

Take circumcision. The three stages all have purpose, significance, and meaning. Cutting the flesh (milah) signifies something beyond the mere cutting of the flesh, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something spiritual. Tearing the membrane (periah) signifies something beyond the mere tearing of the membrane, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something real, something spiritual, something significant, for which the ritual tearing is only a weak substitutionary mediator. Placing the mouth over the sanctified organ (metzitzah) signifies something profound, something that is not placing the mouth over the sanctified organ, but something which that mitzvah represents in a manner that can be known and understood if the practitioner is familiar with the spirit of metzitzah: what does it represent? What is the reality for which it is merely a representation?

To practice the three stages of circumcision ignorant of what they represent in a real way, to practice them as though they are the reality in themselves, if this is what Judaism has become, then it contains nothing but smoke and mirrors and shadows of a reality is hides and distorts more than it serves and enlightens.

. . . What about this Christianizing of the rituals? As a chok, circumcision is a ritual whose spiritual significance, whose emblematic reality, will be revealed by Messiah. But how on earth could Messiah do better than Jesus of Nazareth who, without fore-thought, or foreskin on his father, filled milah with life-blood when he was conceived apart from his father's bled organ? In other words, anytime in Judaism blood is taken from flesh, that flesh is dead. Blood is the signifier of death. The male organ is dead after circumcision, such that the sages rightly consider circumcision a "sacrifice." Jesus' father's organ was sacrificed (bled) in his conception. How could Messiah find a more fitting filling of the practice of milah?

Periah occurs when a mohel, fingernail sharpened for the process, after cutting off the flesh of the uncircumcision, commences to sever the membrane that on male and female, represents virginity, sanctity, purity, freedom from the reign of the serpent, the phallus.

After removing the flesh of uncircumcision, Gentile flesh, the flesh that's central in Gen(i)tile procreation, the creation of Gentile flesh, the phallus, the mohel symbolically severs the membrane of sanctity therein symbolically sanctifying the new birth, the second birth, that is based on a conception that occurs during the day, not the night, a conception from a sanctified body, not a desecrated body, a torn body, torn by the uncircumcised flesh. How could Messiah explain periah any better than showing that it represents the inevitable and obvious result of milah? Cut off the flesh of uncircumcision, the flesh that desecrates the human body, the flesh that caused the original sin, the flesh that's the origin of sin, phallic-sex, then allow the new man, the Jew, to open the human body himself, without the help of the serpent, the phallus (Jesus' virgin birth), signify this by severing the membrane of sanctity, that is normally severed by the head of the serpent (on both the male and the female body) sever this membrane with the hand of a Jew, not the head of a serpent, signify the new birth, the new man, the Jew, the human being . . . how could Messiah do better than Jesus did without speaking a word. As Jesus did before he spoke a single word?

Do you see what I'm getting at? Messiah is going to have to do Jesus one better in explaining the significance of milah, periah, metzitzah, and yet Jews today couldn't care less if he does or doesn't since it hasn't even entered the radar of their rote slavery to law, that these things even require a spiritual significance beyond their glorying in the lifeless, bloodless, mitzvah itself, the practice they think makes them good Jews pleasing to God.



John

 

[metis]

When you read Judaism through the lens of Jewish law you get the outer shell without the heart and soul. The law is not the heart and soul. It's the parameters, the wine-skin, perhaps the heart without the blood. The spirit of Judaism is the blood that brings the law to life. The law is the servant of the spirit of Judaism, such that when Jews are slaves to the law, there is no spirit.

Take circumcision. The three stages all have purpose, significance, and meaning. Cutting the flesh (milah) signifies something beyond the mere cutting of the flesh, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something spiritual. Tearing the membrane (periah) signifies something beyond the mere tearing of the membrane, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something real, something spiritual, something significant, for which the ritual tearing is only a weak substitutionary mediator. Placing the mouth over the sanctified organ (metzitzah) signifies something profound, something that is not placing the mouth over the sanctified organ, but something which that mitzvah represents in a manner that can be known and understood if the practitioner is familiar with the spirit of metzitzah: what does it represent? What is the reality for which it is merely a representation?

To practice the three stages of circumcision ignorant of what they represent in a real way, to practice them as though they are the reality in themselves, if this is what Judaism has become, then it contains nothing but smoke and mirrors and shadows of a reality is hides and distorts more than it serves and enlightens.

. . . What about this Christianizing of the rituals? As a chok, circumcision is a ritual whose spiritual significance, whose emblematic reality, will be revealed by Messiah. But how on earth could Messiah do better than Jesus of Nazareth who, without fore-thought, or foreskin on his father, filled milah with life-blood when he was conceived apart from his father's bled organ? In other words, anytime in Judaism blood is taken from flesh, that flesh is dead. Blood is the signifier of death. The male organ is dead after circumcision, such that the sages rightly consider circumcision a "sacrifice." Jesus' father's organ was sacrificed (bled) in his conception. How could Messiah find a more fitting filling of the practice of milah?

Periah occurs when a mohel, fingernail sharpened for the process, after cutting off the flesh of the uncircumcision, commences to sever the membrane that on male and female, represents virginity, sanctity, purity, freedom from the reign of the serpent, the phallus.

After removing the flesh of uncircumcision, Gentile flesh, the flesh that's central in Gen(i)tile procreation, the creation of Gentile flesh, the phallus, the mohel symbolically severs the membrane of sanctity therein symbolically sanctifying the new birth, the second birth, that is based on a conception that occurs during the day, not the night, a conception from a sanctified body, not a desecrated body, a torn body, torn by the uncircumcised flesh. How could Messiah explain periah any better than showing that it represents the inevitable and obvious result of milah? Cut off the flesh of uncircumcision, the flesh that desecrates the human body, the flesh that caused the original sin, the flesh that's the origin of sin, phallic-sex, then allow the new man, the Jew, to open the human body himself, without the help of the serpent, the phallus (Jesus' virgin birth), signify this by severing the membrane of sanctity, that is normally severed by the head of the serpent (on both the male and the female body) sever this membrane with the hand of a Jew, not the head of a serpent, signify the new birth, the new man, the Jew, the human being . . . how could Messiah do better than Jesus did without speaking a word. As Jesus did before he spoke a single word?

Do you see what I'm getting at? Messiah is going to have to do Jesus one better in explaining the significance of milah, periah, metzitzah, and yet Jews today couldn't care less if he does or doesn't since it hasn't even entered the radar of their rote slavery to law, that these things even require a spiritual significance beyond their glorying in the lifeless, bloodless, mitzvah itself, the practice they think makes them good Jews pleasing to God.



John

Are you familiar with Micah 6:8? Are you familiar with what Hillel responded when asked what the Law was about? Are you aware that today's Jews are pretty much theological descendants of Hillel's, and many other sage's, approach? To say that the Law is "cold" is only if one treats it as such, and I would guess, and for good reason, that the vast majority of us don't treat it that way.

Also, I don't really think any of us here really swallows the idea that Jesus was somehow sired by the "Holy Spirit" that impregnated the "Virgin Mary". That may well fit Greek mythology but certainly not Judaism. Realistically, can you imagine any practicing Jew two thousand years ago following a man who claimed to be God and claiming to be sired by God, which is a theological oxymoron? If I said it about myself, would you believe me too?

I think the importance of Jesus is not any claim to divinity, which I have doubts he ever laid claim to, but was what he taught about living out the faith rather than just going through the motions without thought. He was by no means the only one to say that, such as Ezekiel's statement about the stench of sacrifices in God's eyes that were done without earnest intent of what the rituals symbolize.

Therefore, when we do perform these rituals, such as let's say those associated with Pesach, we go through the readings that explain to our children and remind us as adults as to why we're performing these rituals.

 

[Tumah]

When you read Judaism through the lens of Jewish law you get the outer shell without the heart and soul. The law is not the heart and soul. It's the parameters, the wine-skin, perhaps the heart without the blood. The spirit of Judaism is the blood that brings the law to life. The law is the servant of the spirit of Judaism, such that when Jews are slaves to the law, there is no spirit.

Take circumcision. The three stages all have purpose, significance, and meaning. Cutting the flesh (milah) signifies something beyond the mere cutting of the flesh, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something spiritual. Tearing the membrane (periah) signifies something beyond the mere tearing of the membrane, which is a ritual, a practice designed to represent something real, something spiritual, something significant, for which the ritual tearing is only a weak substitutionary mediator. Placing the mouth over the sanctified organ (metzitzah) signifies something profound, something that is not placing the mouth over the sanctified organ, but something which that mitzvah represents in a manner that can be known and understood if the practitioner is familiar with the spirit of metzitzah: what does it represent? What is the reality for which it is merely a representation?

To practice the three stages of circumcision ignorant of what they represent in a real way, to practice them as though they are the reality in themselves, if this is what Judaism has become, then it contains nothing but smoke and mirrors and shadows of a reality is hides and distorts more than it serves and enlightens.

. . . What about this Christianizing of the rituals? As a chok, circumcision is a ritual whose spiritual significance, whose emblematic reality, will be revealed by Messiah. But how on earth could Messiah do better than Jesus of Nazareth who, without fore-thought, or foreskin on his father, filled milah with life-blood when he was conceived apart from his father's bled organ? In other words, anytime in Judaism blood is taken from flesh, that flesh is dead. Blood is the signifier of death. The male organ is dead after circumcision, such that the sages rightly consider circumcision a "sacrifice." Jesus' father's organ was sacrificed (bled) in his conception. How could Messiah find a more fitting filling of the practice of milah?

Periah occurs when a mohel, fingernail sharpened for the process, after cutting off the flesh of the uncircumcision, commences to sever the membrane that on male and female, represents virginity, sanctity, purity, freedom from the reign of the serpent, the phallus.

After removing the flesh of uncircumcision, Gentile flesh, the flesh that's central in Gen(i)tile procreation, the creation of Gentile flesh, the phallus, the mohel symbolically severs the membrane of sanctity therein symbolically sanctifying the new birth, the second birth, that is based on a conception that occurs during the day, not the night, a conception from a sanctified body, not a desecrated body, a torn body, torn by the uncircumcised flesh. How could Messiah explain periah any better than showing that it represents the inevitable and obvious result of milah? Cut off the flesh of uncircumcision, the flesh that desecrates the human body, the flesh that caused the original sin, the flesh that's the origin of sin, phallic-sex, then allow the new man, the Jew, to open the human body himself, without the help of the serpent, the phallus (Jesus' virgin birth), signify this by severing the membrane of sanctity, that is normally severed by the head of the serpent (on both the male and the female body) sever this membrane with the hand of a Jew, not the head of a serpent, signify the new birth, the new man, the Jew, the human being . . . how could Messiah do better than Jesus did without speaking a word. As Jesus did before he spoke a single word?

Do you see what I'm getting at? Messiah is going to have to do Jesus one better in explaining the significance of milah, periah, metzitzah, and yet Jews today couldn't care less if he does or doesn't since it hasn't even entered the radar of their rote slavery to law, that these things even require a spiritual significance beyond their glorying in the lifeless, bloodless, mitzvah itself, the practice they think makes them good Jews pleasing to God.



John

I see exactly what you're getting at:
Christian drivel in Jewish clothing. Jews for Jesus does the same thing. I wonder if you're a baptists as well.