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Jesus is God?
- Thread starter Khale
- Start date
kai
ragamuffin
scott you are ignoring most of the old testament where god describes his essence his wants of man and his desires that he wishes man to fulfill.
you are of course ignoring the Christs teachings because you don't believe him to be god
and you must ignore the Quran because it negates your own faith
Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
In the Quran, we read that Allah is Compassionate and Merciful. He is Kind, Loving, and Wise. He is the Creator, the Sustainer, the Healer. He is the One who Guides, the One who Protects, the One who Forgives. There are traditionally ninety nine names, or attributes, that Muslims use to describe Allah's nature.
'Jesus revealed himself to his disciples and the text does indicate, he to be one, with the Father...
I was only responding to the " impossibility" of two beings in one and of course in my faith it is three. The Trinity.'
Michel07, If God really is three beings in one, why would he say:
Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me
andDeuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Notice clearly that there is no 'WE'! There is only ONE God and he is ONE being, not three.
Can't find 'we are thy God' in the Bible anywhere...:sorry1:
The Son of God is NOT God the Son!
And have you stopped to think that since God cannot die, and if Jesus is supposed to be 'God the Son', then entire passages of the New Testament are completely false?
Genesis 1, 26 Then God said; Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Your last point completely misses the Resurrection and that death could not contain Jesus.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Yeshua and God are never shown to be one god if you're looking throughout the 4 gospels. I give you that the men who came after Yeshua offering their opinions linked the two in their writings and letters.
Examining what Yeshua said and what his followers thought of him should never lead on to believe he and God are one in the same. This is why when you pointed out them being one I responded thinking you meant that they were one in purpose as shown by John chapter 17.
One in purpose is what he taught and it is exactly what he meant. There is no doubt that Yeshua saw himself separate from his god. There are numerous verses that show this. Some notable ones are surrounding his prayer, crying and begging in the garden before he was taken. His supposed cry on the cross. Even before all that he utters..."my god and your god"....... Additionally, when we read Yeshua's prayer to his god saying "You are the one true god, I am the anointed one whom you have sent".......logically we are drawn to the conclusion that he is not God.
If one does not conclude this by that statement then I believe they misunderstood it. It, by far, is one of the clearest verses given by Yeshua. Mind you....the whole of chapter 17 is nothing more than a prayer from Yeshua to his god and it sets to the tone as to how Yeshua viewed himself in relation to his god as well as his hope that all his followers would share that same connection (oneness). When he says...."I came from heaven, not of my own will, but the will of the one who sent me.... No real interpretation is needed.
If it was an angel that said it one would not conclude that the angel is God.....They would clearly point out that the angel was sent by the will of God. This is the case of Yeshua. John (The Baptist) understood there was a difference when we read him saying "For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is upon him without measure or limit." This view of Yeshua was consistent. Another one of his followers says to him....."But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask." This same follower also acknowledges his relation to God but she didn't view him as God but rather the son of God....("I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God."). This is exactly how Yeshua saw himself ("You are the one true god, I am the Messiah whom you have sent).....
I guess those are your beliefs.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Yes, but we are not amused. When I say (we)....I mean ME.......because you can't have 1:26 (which would seem to be in the plural tense) without having 1:27 where (Elohim) is viewed in the singular tense...
Gen 1:27
So God (Elohim) created man in his own image, in the image of God (Elohim) created he him; male and female created he them.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
It's not that I believe them......they are what they are.....they are there in the scripture......
I guess it could be summed up to interpretation but as I previously stated.....a lot of those verses Yeshua spoke were some of the clearest ones which did not need over analyzing.
I am surprised at how may see a difference between the mind of God, the word of God and the enity it's self. The NT says in no uncertain terms, "And the 'word' became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father."
Shalom
Shalom
The fact you don't understand that is no ones problem but your own.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't understand.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
There are said to be one hundred names of God in the Qur'an but the last one is not revealed. It is reserved until after the revelation of the Qur'an.
Son of God does not mean God the Son.
What is the import of your quote from Ezekiel, it certainly has no bearing on your claim.
Regards,
Scott
kai
ragamuffin
the quote from Ezekial is one of hundreds in the old testement where god is making it quite clear who he is how he should be worshipped and by whom.
i used it to point out that the "hebrew" god is very much a god of the "hebrews" he is not a god to be ignored nor disobeyed he takes an active interest in "his" people
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Show me in the gospels, in the words of Jesus where He claims to BE God. When you've done that, I'll grant your point.
I'm a sola scriptura kinda guy on this particular subject.
Regards,
Scott
I'm a sola scriptura kinda guy on this particular subject.
Regards,
Scott
kai
ragamuffin
good point , but my point is christians prey to him as God he is their God or part and parcel of their God
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
And my point is that anyone's mental image of God is their own individual image capable of being grossly mistaken.
An individual's mistake does not bind me or anyone else other than that individual. God is what He is not what you or I or a trinitarian would wish to make Him be. Why don't you get that point?
Regards,
Scott
kai
ragamuffin
that is my point scott in the mind of a christian is a god
in the mind of a muslim is a god
in the mind of a jew is a god
then according to you anything Bahuallah has said is in his mind too, or is the only revelation you accept is the one that comes of your own prophet , just like jews ,christians and muslims in fact. like all religious groups you only accept your own groups revelations as coming from God
Throughout the long years of exile He endured, Bahá'u'lláh revealed divinely inspired passages equivalent to over 100 volumes. This revelation comprisesmystical writings , social and ethical teachings , laws and ordinances, and a fearless proclamation of His message to the kings and rulers of the world, including Napoleon III, Queen Victoria, Pope Pius IX, the Shah of Persia, Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany, the Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria, and others.
Bahá'u'lláh: Manifestation of God (Baha'u'llah,Bahaullah)
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
In the mind of anyman--you or I, is a god. Behind that image is God in His Unknowable Essence.
We are supposed to do the best we can, in this life or the next.
So, if there is a God is He limited in His essence by what we think He is, or is He independent of our images of Him?
Regards,
We are supposed to do the best we can, in this life or the next.
So, if there is a God is He limited in His essence by what we think He is, or is He independent of our images of Him?
Regards,
kai
ragamuffin
that depends on whether you accept revelation as coming from god doesnt it, you cant have a god that has nothing to do with us and is not even able to be percieved by us on one hand , and accept revelations from a God on the other hand, either he interferes here on earth or he doesnt.
my theory is that man has created his own Gods throughout the ages , the jews had their God and along came christianity and because of Rome it spread across the world , then came Islam , all in the mind of people with there own reasons for propogating it .
God can be whatever you want him to be , but wether he is real or not is a different matter. I can look at the big three religions study their doctrine , and come to a conclusion and that is that Jews and muslims can with some stretch of the imagination claim to be worshiping the same god although Islam would then negate judaism ,
but in all honesty any one who knows anything about christianity and Islam can see they are incompatible.
if you recognise revelation then you also pick and choose which revelation suits your belief system, its human to do so
as i cannot pick and choose which is divine revelation and which is not i choose to step back and not choose to bow down to any of them because i may pick the wrong one and feel a little foolish if i devoted my life to christ and died and found myself in asgard