Jesus Has Left The Building

[Misty]

My apologies but I've been around a long time too and there domes a point where you do not have to be any kind of psycologist to recognize undertones, I was just calling it as I saw it.
Yes are right about religion, religion created by humans does cause strife. The religious organization created by Jesus Christ does not. Sometimes you have to kiss a lot of toads before you find the handsome prince. I suppose frustration has caused you to develop the idea that there is no handsome prince to be found.
The truth and the proof is out there Misty, you just have to want it enough to find it, oddly enough, most of the time it is staring most people right in the face yet they cannot or will not see it.

I married my handsome prince 41 years ago tomorrow, I certainly don't need another!:cover:

My frustrations have absolutely NOTHING to do with matters of faith I can assure you. I am frustrated because we are trying to sell our large property in order to downsize. Due to the recession nothing much is selling in the UK whilst more and more properties are coming onto the market! I am frustrated because I am waiting to hear from social workers about placing my Down's Syndrome adult son elsewhere. I have have got to the stage in life where I cannot cope with both a disabled son and husband. I should have heard earlier this week what was decided at their weekly meeting, but so far I haven't heard. I will have to chase them up. I have already spent quite a long time on the phone this morning chasing up allowances we are entitled to claim in respect of disability.

 

[Evandr]

I married my handsome prince 41 years ago tomorrow, I certainly don't need another!:cover:

My frustrations have absolutely NOTHING to do with matters of faith I can assure you. I am frustrated because we are trying to sell our large property in order to downsize. Due to the recession nothing much is selling in the UK whilst more and more porperties are coming onto the market! I am frustrated because I am waiting to hear from social workers about placing my Down's Syndrome adult son elsewhere. I have have got to the stage in life where I cannot cope with both a disabled son and husband. I should have heard earlier this week what was decided at their weekly meeting, but so far I haven't heard. I will have to chase them up. I have already spent quite a long time on the phone this morning chasing up allowances we are entitled to claim in respect of disability.

My heart goes out to you Misty, I too know what frustration is, I am helping my wife battle ovarian Cancer right now and although she is winning the fight the protocols are very expensive and because we are not following western medicine’s "cut, poison, and burn" standard practices our insurance will not cover it. Our doctors look at us like we are crazy even though none of them can claim a success rate of more than 2% because American doctors simply do not know how to cure cancer even though there are many way to do it.

I also admit that my "handsome Prince" analogy was a bit strange but my intent was sincere. There is a truth out there and sometimes it is not subject to the proof demanded by many. It is my understanding that this mortal probation is a time of testing and sometimes those tests are hard to bear as you and I both well know. I believe that we are in a transition from pre-mortal to post-mortal existence and mortality is a time for us to demonstrate the character we developed in pre-mortality so that our position in the "hereafter" can be determined and Hell (outer darkness) has no place for those who do not choose it with their eyes wide open.
The only way to properly test character is to let it have free reign to choose its own path without being swayed with the reality of God beyond the need and influence of faith. Having proof displaces faith and mortality would loose its significance. I am not judging you Misty, it is not my place to do so, I only want to make sure that what I have to say becomes part of other people's list of possibilities to consider. For whatever you feel it's worth I will keep you and youer family in my prayers.

 

[Misty]

My heart goes out to you Misty, I too know what frustration is, I am helping my wife battle ovarian Cancer right now and although she is winning the fight the protocols are very expensive and because we are not following western medicine’s "cut, poison, and burn" standard practices our insurance will not cover it. Our doctors look at us like we are crazy even though none of them can claim a success rate of more than 2% because American doctors simply do not know how to cure cancer even though there are many way to do it.

I also admit that my "handsome Prince" analogy was a bit strange but my intent was sincere. There is a truth out there and sometimes it is not subject to the proof demanded by many. It is my understanding that this mortal probation is a time of testing and sometimes those tests are hard to bear as you and I both well know. I believe that we are in a transition from pre-mortal to post-mortal existence and mortality is a time for us to demonstrate the character we developed in pre-mortality so that our position in the "hereafter" can be determined and Hell (outer darkness) has no place for those who do not choose it with their eyes wide open.
The only way to properly test character is to let it have free reign to choose its own path without being swayed with the reality of God beyond the need and influence of faith. Having proof displaces faith and mortality would loose its significance. I am not judging you Misty, it is not my place to do so, I only want to make sure that what I have to say becomes part of other people's list of possibilities to consider. For whatever you feel it's worth I will keep you and youer family in my prayers.

I am very sorry to hear about your wife, ovarian cancer is very unpleasant. I apologise if I have come over far too harshly. I should count my blessings I really should. We might moan about our National Health Service here in the UK, but at least we receive free treatment at point of need for all our illnesses. It is paid for by contributions from people who are in work. Even if you have never paid in, like myself, as I have been a homemaker since I married in 1969, I still receive free treatment. Even the Queen would be treated free on the NHS, although no doubt she would prefer to have private health care. I hope it works out for both of you I really, really do. We shall both have to agree to disagree on matters of faith.

 

[Evandr]

I am very sorry to hear about your wife, ovarian cancer is very unpleasant. I apologise if I have come over far too harshly. I should count my blessings I really should. We might moan about our National Health Service here in the UK, but at least we receive free treatment at point of need for all our illnesses. It is paid for by contributions from people who are in work. Even if you have never paid in, like myself, as I have been a homemaker since I married in 1969, I still receive free treatment. Even the Queen would be treated free on the NHS, although no doubt she would prefer to have private health care. I hope it works out for both of you I really, really do. We shall both have to agree to disagree on matters of faith.

A very ameable end to this conversation, thank you

 

[dogsgod]

bump.

 

[fallingblood]

I only watched the first video, but in just that little time, I see no worth in what he is saying. He suggests that the village of Nazareth never existed during the 1st century; however, we have more than enough archeological evidence proving to us the Nazareth did in fact exist in the first century. This shows that his research in to the subject is shoddy at best.

 

[logician]

I only watched the first video, but in just that little time, I see no worth in what he is saying. He suggests that the village of Nazareth never existed during the 1st century; however, we have more than enough archeological evidence proving to us the Nazareth did in fact exist in the first century. This shows that his research in to the subject is shoddy at best.

Laughably untrue.

 

[fallingblood]

Laughably untrue.

How? He was wrong about the existence of Nazareth. We know that Nazareth did in fact exist in the first century. We have a plethora of archeological evidence supporting that. It not being mentioned by various writers only supports what we know about Nazareth during the first century; it was of little importance, it was a hamlet.

The fact that he did not do proper research in this case brings into question the rest of what he is saying. And really, there is no reason to even suggest that Nazareth never existed as that idea has been proposed and been thoroughly debunked over and over again. Even the source he uses is shoddy at best as it seems all of it's information is quite outdated.

If he can't do proper research, why should we assume that he is credible at all?

 

[logician]

Myth is a means of expression, I think it is sufficient in its own right in that it has its place within the arts.

I listened to all five segments. A very organized treatment of the the subject, and also a good segment about all the "experts" who insist there is a historical Jesus.

 

[dogsgod]

I listened to all five segments. A very organized treatment of the the subject, and also a good segment about all the "experts" who insist there is a historical Jesus.

Agreed. I listened to all five segments as well.

 

[logician]

Agreed. I listened to all five segments as well.

It's interesting that the historicity of Socrates, many of whom question his existence, is much better established than the historicity of the supposed Jesus. The most damnig points against the historicity of the supposed Jesus are the lack of concurrent historical records of the man. He was supposed to have spoken to multitudes with his "new teachings", thrown the moneylenders out of the temple, went one on one with Pilate, and had a mysterious death, (I'm not even including all the supposed miracles here), yet no historian of the time took note of any of these events, either individually, or in the Talmud. Not much to go on there.

 

[fallingblood]

It's interesting that the historicity of Socrates, many of whom question his existence, is much better established than the historicity of the supposed Jesus. The most damnig points against the historicity of the supposed Jesus are the lack of concurrent historical records of the man. He was supposed to have spoken to multitudes with his "new teachings", thrown the moneylenders out of the temple, went one on one with Pilate, and had a mysterious death, (I'm not even including all the supposed miracles here), yet no historian of the time took note of any of these events, either individually, or in the Talmud. Not much to go on there.

Jesus is spoken of in the Talmud.

Also, I find it interesting how this series of videos can lack so much in actual research and still be found of importance.

 

[dogsgod]

Jesus is spoken of in the Talmud.

Also, I find it interesting how this series of videos can lack so much in actual research and still be found of importance.

Who is the one lacking in research here? I'm sure you researched the death of this Jesus of the Talmud and all the other total dissimilarities.

 

[fallingblood]

Who is the one lacking in research here? I'm sure you researched the death of this Jesus of the Talmud and all the other total dissimilarities.

Do you deny that Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud? If you do, then you completely ignore the entire debate on the subject. To state that Jesus is not mentioned in the Talmud simply is facetious.

 

[dogsgod]

Do you deny that Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud? If you do, then you completely ignore the entire debate on the subject. To state that Jesus is not mentioned in the Talmud simply is facetious.

Did I deny that a Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud? How did this Jesus that is referred to in the Talmud die? You did the research, didn't you?

 

[dogsgod]

Maybe you should use a lifeline, call a friend, or poll the audience.

 

[fallingblood]

Did I deny that a Jesus is mentioned in the Talmud? How did this Jesus that is referred to in the Talmud die? You did the research, didn't you?

He was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin. However that does not mean it means it is a different Jesus that is being spoken of. It just means there is one more contradiction in the story. So yes, I did the research. And still, it comes down to this, Carrier did very little research on the subject.

 

[dogsgod]

He was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin. However that does not mean it means it is a different Jesus that is being spoken of. It just means there is one more contradiction in the story. So yes, I did the research. And still, it comes down to this, Carrier did very little research on the subject.

Wrongo, Buckaroo. He was hung from a tree. None of the details of the five different Jesus' (Yeshu) referred to in the Talmud match that of the Jesus of the NT, but no doubt believers such as yourself have no need for details. Belief requires faith, not research, and you are not one to talk about research.

Carrier did very little research on the subject.

first take the beam out of your own eye...

 

[fallingblood]

Wrongo, Buckaroo. He was hung from a tree. None of the details of the five different Jesus' (Yeshu) referred to in the Talmud match that of the Jesus of the NT, but no doubt believers such as yourself have no need for details. Belief requires faith, not research, and you are not one to talk about research.

They don't match Jesus of the NT perfectly. However, as you know, the Jesus as described in Mark and the Jesus described in John are not perfectly the same either. The Gospels themselves differ on the life of Jesus, so to rule out the the Talmud completely, based on just that, doesn't work.

first take the beam out of your own eye...

I've already explained how he had show a lack of research, in the case of Nazareth. No one has shown that to be wrong. I have also shown that I've done the research. So maybe you should start showing why Carrier is credible at all.

 

[logician]

Lack of concurrent historicity = damning to postulate that there was really a historical Jesus.