Jesus - First Born?

[Soapy]

And while they (Mary and Joseph) were there (in Bethlehem for the census) the time came for her to give birth. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn . . . . For unto you is born this day in the city of David, a Savior who is Christ the Lord (the Messiah). [Luke 2:6,7,11)
Simeon - "And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. (God's Messiah) . . . . Lord (God), now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word, for my eyes have seen your salvation, that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel." (Luke 2:26,29-32)

God's word given to the prophets concerning the coming Messiah became flesh! God's plan for redemption, salvation. A child was born, a human child was born - "And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him". (Luke 2:40)

Certainly true.

Happy Birthday Jesus and Merry Christmas to all!

Jesus did not celebrate birthdays… His command is that we commentate HIS DEATH!!

 

[Ebionite]

We will never know Satan's name.

The title of Satan is applied to more than one being.

And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1

 

[Ebionite]

His command is that we commentate HIS DEATH!!

No, that was Paul's command.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1 Corinthians 11:26

 

[Soapy]

I can agree that at Jesus' baptism that Jesus was anointed by God with the Power of God. At that point becoming Messiah for us.
Yes, Satan and Devil are just titles. We will never know Satan's name.
Satan was Not the MOST....... powerful, but Michael the Archangel is - 1st Thess. 4:16; Daniel 12:1; Revelation 12:7-9

Michael is only the Captain of the armies of God. It doesn’t mean that he is the most powerful angel.

You FEAR what is true… It is not glorifying the fallen Angel to tell the truth. What is being shown is similar to Saul bring the most splendid of the Israelites which is why hd was chosen to be the first king of Israel. The anecdote is that being glorious in splendour doesn’t make you worthy to be at God’s side… in fact, it is a handicap because of makes you conceited as both ‘Satan’ and Saul were shown to be - resulting in their downfall. Jesus, on the other hand, is described as ‘not comely that any one should look to desire him!’

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus did not celebrate birthdays… His command is that we commentate HIS DEATH!!

Good point ^ above ^ because Jesus did instruct to remember his day of death - Luke 22:19
Jesus died on the Jewish calendar month of Nisan the 14th day.
Plus, just as a wedding anniversary does Not always come on a Friday, Nisan 14 would Not fall each year on a Friday.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The title of Satan is applied to more than one being.
And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1

I find 1st Chronicles answers as to who is the ' he ' is mentioned at 2nd Sam. 24:1
The ' he ' is Not YHWH but Satan as mentioned at 1st Chronicles 21:1
God (YHWH) used JOAB to dissuade David - see 2nd Sam. 24:3-4 - but David chose his own way.
David's word prevailed against JOAB's. David admitted his wrong (David's wrong) at 2nd Sam. 24:17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Michael is only the Captain of the armies of God. It doesn’t mean that he is the most powerful angel......................

ONLY ! There is ONLY ONE Archangel and that is: Michael - 1st Thessalonians 4:16
Michael the Archangel (singluar) is Commander in Chief (Hail to the Chief !) of angelic armies - Revelation chapter 19

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, that was Paul's command.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1 Corinthians 11:26

.... and before verse 26 what does the Bible say at 1st Corinthians 11:23 but received from the Lord aka resurrected Jesus.
Jesus already instituted observing the memorial at Luke 22:19 - until he arrives or comes.

 

[Soapy]

The title of Satan is applied to more than one being.

And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1

The correct translation is ‘The Satan’.

We only say, ‘Satan’, without the ‘definite’ article (‘The’) because ONLY ONE RECOGNISABLE Angel is called so. And YES, any number of angels or/and humans CAN ALSO be called ‘Satan’…in which case the INDEFINITE ARTICLE would be used ‘A Satan’.

The same goes for ‘The God [of…]’ and ‘A God [of…]’. In the New Testament we see ‘THE GOD OF THE JEWS’ being addressed ONLY AS ‘GOD’. In the Old Testament He is ‘THE GOD …’
This is because by the New Testament only THE GOD OF the JEWS was being spoken of AS GOD… in the O.T. There were references to many Gods of pagan belief. There was need for explicit definition of which God in the o.t. but in the n.t. there was no need as reference to ‘God’ ONLY referred to ‘THE GOD OF THE JEWS’.

But at this stage in a debate we should not be indulging in BASIC ENGLISH LESSONS.

 

[Ebionite]

I find 1st Chronicles answers as to who is the ' he ' is mentioned at 2nd Sam. 24:1

In 2nd Samuel "he" is YHWH, since that is the immediate context.

And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1

 

[Soapy]

ONLY ! There is ONLY ONE Archangel and that is: Michael - 1st Thessalonians 4:16
Michael the Archangel (singluar) is Commander in Chief (Hail to the Chief !) of angelic armies - Revelation chapter 19

Ha ha ha… you are so funny!!!

Satan is not an ArchAngel… His status is HIGHER than ArchAngel…!!! See Ezekiel 28:3-15.

And certainly, C.I.C of the armies of God is not the ultimate Angelic position amongst the heavenly angels.

Please stop trying to create a situation that you cannot justify by reality or scriptural means.

 

[Ebionite]

The correct translation is ‘The Satan’.

So you got it right and everyone else got it wrong?

1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

www.biblecc.com

 

[Soapy]

So you got it right when everyone else got it wrong?

1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

www.biblecc.com

His TITLE is ‘The Satan’. TITLES carry the pre-word ‘THE’ which MAY OR MAY NOT be used according to the purpose of the writer. …

Why am I having to teach you ‘English Language 101: Use of Definite and Indefinite Articles in reference to Titles and Names’??

 

[Ebionite]

His TITLE is ‘The Satan’.

There is no "him" without context. In the context of David numbering Israel, the Satan was YHWH. In other contexts he was someone else.

TITLES carry the pre-word ‘THE’ which MAY OR MAY NOT be used according to the purpose of the writer.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Why is the King known as Defender of the Faith? | The Church of England

Where does the title originate? What does “Supreme Governor” of the Church of England mean? What is the Established Church?

www.churchofengland.org

 

[Soapy]

There is no "him" without context. In the context of David numbering Israel, the Satan was YHWH. In other contexts he was someone else.


You don't know what you're talking about.

You mean that YOU don’t understand what I’m talking about. What is being spoken about here is simply common sense. He (YOU) who says it’s not understandable is trying to evade the truth because they (You) are trying to create your own reality - a false one.

 

[Ebionite]

You mean that YOU don’t understand what I’m talking about.

No, I meant what I said. You have no facts to support your argument.

 

[blü 2]

Jesus told us that there would be wolves in sheep’s clothing coming to present a ‘different Jesus’. Jesus told us that there would be disastrous consequences for those who ‘added or removed’ from the word of God.

To put it simply, a god without a congregation is no longer a god, so all successful religions have such tactics against rivals.

You are saying that Jesus lied about these things:

I'm saying that there are three distinct and incompatible versions in the gospels and Paul of who Jesus was. Paul and John say Jesus pre-existed in heaven and created the material universe. Matthew and Luke say Jesus was born of a virgin and had God's Y-chromosome. Mark offers the closest thing to a credible version, that Jesus was an ordinary Jewish male until JtB baptized him and God adopted him as [his] son, just as [he]'d adopted David as [his] son in Psalm 2:7.

You appear to be ignoring what the NT actually says and reading only what's convenient to your own view.

Perhaps YOU are one of those wolves in sheep’s clothing or one who wishes to claim that no one has ever altered the scriptures to deny the truth of the testimony that Jesus Christ brought to man: the word of God!

Don't blame me if you don't know or understand what the NT actually says.

I said it but it seems you didn’t notice. HELLENISTIC JEWS pervaded the regions since every group tried to ‘baptize’ more than another group. Easiest way was to amalgamate the pagan belief with the new trinitarian belief that though there were THREE [GODS] these were ONE GOD!!!

The Trinity doctrine is mentioned nowhere in the NT. Instead, all five versions of Jesus state that they're NOT God and never claim otherwise. It's not formally adopted till the fourth century CE, though there's an early desire within Christianity to elevate their principle character to God status.
.

The reality is that it had little to do with the JEWISH BELIEF that the MESSIAH was of the lineage of a MAN: Abraham / Jacob / David. The Hellenistic view was that if was a GOD- MAN like the Greeks believed - that a great God cane dune and impregnated a female and the offspring was a UNION of both human and God, like Heracles and Perseus.

As I said, the NT nowhere claims that Jesus is God.

No, the New Testament is clear that Jesus did not baptize ANYONE.

Where does it actually say that?

Paul brought the testament of God brought by Jesus Christ, to the Gentiles. Paul argued with Peter that the testimony was not for Jews alone… and he was right.

Paul never met Jesus. Instead he had visions, purely mental events.

The result was that Peter continued to only preach to Jews and was roundly told off by God in a dream where Peter was told to eat ‘unholy food’. God told him he must eat whatever food God gave him to eat… the ‘food’ was, of course, GENTILES… he must preach to ANY and EVERY nation God sent him to - not only the Jews.

Please point to the specific gospel verses that say that.

And explain why the Jewish God, the God of all four gospel versions of Jesus, wishes to put an end to Judaism in breach of [his] own covenant.

 

[blü 2]

The highlighted portion is consistent with the Urantia revelation. Jesus was conceived the “natural way”. The miracle of miracles was the creator son becoming the person of Mary’s baby at conception.

Thanks.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In 2nd Samuel "he" is YHWH, since that is the immediate context.
And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1

The 'he' referred to is Satan at 2nd Sam. 24:1 because Satan moved David....1st Chronicles 21:1 ( 'he' Satan)
God sent Joab to warn David - Please see 2nd Sam. 24:3 - David ignored Joab - 1st Chron. 21:4
Perhaps an English teacher can better explain why the pronoun 'he' in the immediate context is Not God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...................I'm saying that there are three distinct and incompatible versions in the gospels and Paul of who Jesus was. Paul and John say Jesus pre-existed in heaven and created the material universe. Matthew and Luke say Jesus was born of a virgin and had God's Y-chromosome. Mark offers the closest thing to a credible version, that Jesus was an ordinary Jewish male until JtB baptized him and God adopted him as [his] son, just as [he]'d adopted David as [his] son in Psalm 2:7...............
The Trinity doctrine is mentioned nowhere in the NT. Instead, all five versions of Jesus state that they're NOT God and never claim otherwise. It's not formally adopted till the fourth century CE, though there's an early desire within Christianity to elevate their principle character to God status.
And explain why the Jewish God, the God of all four gospel versions of Jesus, wishes to put an end to Judaism in breach of [his] own covenant.

God's covenant contract was made for only one nation, the nation of ancient Israel. Jesus fulfilled that contract covenant - Romans 10:4
Their religious ' house of worship ' was abandoned by God as Jesus taught at Matthew 23:35
Jesus pronounced many 'woes' against the religious leaders and his reasons why in the 23rd chapter of Matthew.
God used the Roman armies to go up against Un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 70. ( earlier God used the Babylonians )
The pattern is set. Once again God will use the political / military to go up against corrupted religion.