Jesus did not die on the Cross

[Redemptionsong]

As I have said before, Deedat is a man of rhetoric not substance. Take a closer look at the passages that he claims are proof that the Bible cannot be from God.
Genesis 21:1,2 is the key.
Deedat wants to make fun of the idea that God's word is honest and to the point. He mixes together verses where one human 'visits' another human (Samson and Delilah), with the visit of the Lord to Sarah. He wants us to believe that the Lord is going to have sex with Sarah! IS HE SICK?

Sarah conceived because the Holy Spirit overshadowed her in the same way that Mary was overshadowed in Nazareth.

Why not read the two previous verses? They say, 'So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.
For the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.'

Now tell me, does a man have the power to close up a woman's womb in this manner? Of COURSE NOT! Only the LORD CAN DO IT!

Deedat thinks the Qur'an should be put away and not discussed because it is too holy. The TRUTH IS that the Qur'an cannot withstand the examination that is cast upon it by genuine investigation.

The way to expose Deedat and the falsehood that he promotes is to study the text carefully, and demonstrate that the word of the Bible, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the word of Truth.

 

[Sabour]

As I have said before, Deedat is a man of rhetoric not substance. Take a closer look at the passages that he claims are proof that the Bible cannot be from God.
Genesis 21:1,2 is the key.
Deedat wants to make fun of the idea that God's word is honest and to the point. He mixes together verses where one human 'visits' another human (Samson and Delilah), with the visit of the Lord to Sarah. He wants us to believe that the Lord is going to have sex with Sarah! IS HE SICK?

Sarah conceived because the Holy Spirit overshadowed her in the same way that Mary was overshadowed in Nazareth.

Why not read the two previous verses? They say, 'So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.
For the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.'

Now tell me, does a man have the power to close up a woman's womb in this manner? Of COURSE NOT! Only the LORD CAN DO IT!

Deedat thinks the Qur'an should be put away and not discussed because it is too holy. The TRUTH IS that the Qur'an cannot withstand the examination that is cast upon it by genuine investigation.

The way to expose Deedat and the falsehood that he promotes is to study the text carefully, and demonstrate that the word of the Bible, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the word of Truth.

I have proved again again and again that the bible contradicts itself.

Wanna talk about for example how a prophet can be alcoholic as implied in the bible?

 

[outhouse]

I have proved again again and again that the bible contradicts itself.

Wanna talk about for example how a prophet can be alcoholic as implied in the bible?

Want to talk about why your pedophile warrior had to copy these errors you speak about?

 

[Sabour]

Redemptionsong,

Here is an interesting thread I found

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...8991-eight-things-your-pastor-will-never.html

 

[outhouse]

Redemptionsong,

Here is an interesting thread I found

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...8991-eight-things-your-pastor-will-never.html

WHY your pedophile warrior copy these ?

 

[sojourner]

I have proved again again and again that the bible contradicts itself.

Wanna talk about for example how a prophet can be alcoholic as implied in the bible?

Well, bully for you! We've known of biblical contradictions for centuries now. We don't seem to have a problem with them; why do you?

 

[Sabour]

Well, bully for you! We've known of biblical contradictions for centuries now. We don't seem to have a problem with them; why do you?

When you say "we", what do you mean by you ?

 

[sojourner]

When you say "we", what do you mean by you ?

I mean "the set of people who've actually seriously and responsibly studied the texts."

 

[Sabour]

So would you agree that Jesus peace be upon him didn't claim divinity and was teaching to worship God and only God? and that the road to heaven is by following the commandments ?

 

[sojourner]

So would you agree that Jesus peace be upon him didn't claim divinity and was teaching to worship God and only God? and that the road to heaven is by following the commandments ?

No. I wouldn't claim that.

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to posts #4, 45, and 54,423,448,496,512.

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran to its end: [10]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:91] Surely, those who disbelieve after they have believed and then increase in disbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they who have gone astray.
[3:92] As for those who have disbelieved, and die while they are disbelievers, there shall not be accepted from any one of them even an earthful of gold, though he offer it in ransom. It is these for whom shall be a grievous punishment, and they shall have no helpers.
[3:93] Never shall you attain to righteousness unless you spend out of that which you love; and whatever you spend, Allah surely knows it well.
[3:94] All food was lawful to the children of Israel, except what Israel forbade himself before the Torah was sent down. Say, ‘Bring, then, the Torah and read it, if you are truthful.’
[3:95] Now whoso forges a lie against Allah after this, then it is these that are the wrongdoers.
[3:96] Say, ‘Allah has spoken the truth: follow, therefore, the religion of Abraham, who wasever inclined to God; and he was not of those who associate gods with God.’
[3:97] Surely, the first House founded for mankind is that at Becca, abounding in blessings and a guidance for all peoples.
[3:98] In it are manifest Signs; it is the place of Abraham; and whoso enters it, enters peace. And pilgrimage to the House is a duty which men — those who can find a way thither — owe to Allah. And whoever disbelieves, let him remember that Allah is surely independent of all creatures.
[3:99] Say, ‘O People of the Book! why deny ye the Signs of Allah, while Allah is Watchful of what you do?’
[3:100] Say, ‘O People of the Book! why hinder ye the believers from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while you are witnesses thereof ? And Allah is not unmindful of what you do.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Any other poster here, believing in a religion or no-religion is welcome to prove threadbare:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s have been given from Christian Gospels of NT-Bible or Quran, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”?
Please

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

One-answer,
I have answered, from scripture, every one of your so-called contradictions.

Having read the 8 points on the hyperlink, I am more than happy to counter these as well.

Why you trust a man who is clearly out to make money for himself by selling his book, is beyond me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Welcome to the culture of islam

Our resident historian in these forums!

What is your sincere take on the points made by our friend Redemptionsong in the posts #554-558 and the historicity of the persons/characters and events mentioned by him from Jewish scripture and the Christians scripture?

Can we take them for real?


Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Redemption song.

Sorry to put things that way. You said the the beauty of bible brought to light.

Well no hard feelings, but I hope you watch this video. These points mentioned, can't be from a holy book.

Regards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uUNdnWXq0

Thanks for your input.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I may now be talking to myself and myself alone, but this reminds me that when deliberate and careful research is done, based on a firm belief in the inerrancy of scripture, all kinds of interesting facts are uncovered.

One of these was the discovery that Mount Sinai, or Horeb, was a mountain in Arabia. And, if you believe the Bible, it tells you as much.

Thanks for your posts #554-558. I like sincere comments/voices though they might be differing and opposing, never-mind.

If you visit the site of Quran given in my post you will find below every verse " Detailed English Commentary "; I would like you to read them.

Do they answer your queries mentioned in your posts # 554-558 ?

Thanks and regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, bully for you! We've known of biblical contradictions for centuries now. We don't seem to have a problem with them; why do you?

How you solve them?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Over and out..............

I don't get you.

Please elaborate.

Regards

 

[Muffled]

Well sorry to be rude with my question now, but when there is a contradiction in the bible, like when I can quote verses from the bible that make it clear that faith alone won't save a person. What would you do?

For example

And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tempted him, saying,
"Master what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the Law? How do you read?" And he answered saying, "Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbor as thyself." And he said unto him, "You have answered right; do this, and you shall live."
Luke 10: 25-28
"Think not that I came to destroy the Law and the prophets. I came not to destroy but rather to fulfill. For verily I tell you, not until all things be accomplished shall a single dot (jot, iota or tiny letter) in any way be lessened from the Law. And whoever breaks the least of the Commandments and teaches this will be the least in the Kingdom, but whoever keeps the Commandments and teaches this will be the highest in the Kingdom. And not unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharasees will you enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19

I don't believe there is any contradiction.

I believe I never said that faith alone saves a person. I believe I said a person is saved by grace through faith.

I believe the question was not "how can I be saved" but "what can I do." Even a saved person can do things so being saved does not eliminate the possiblity of doing things since it only facilitates doing things by God's grace instead of by one's own effort.

 

[Muffled]

You are incorrect.Jesus was dead for 3 days.He was then resurrected.After his resurrection he was on earth for 40 days before he ascended to heaven.The holy scriptures confirms this.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Jesus went to heaven after the 40 days,not before.When he was dead,he was not in heaven.His body was in the tomb.Then God consumed his body like a sacrifice in fire.Jesus was the sacrificial lamb.

Do you remember in the OT how Moses body was consumed by God? Thats what happened to Jesus. Do you remember how God commanded the Israelites in Egypt to sacrifice a 1 year old sheep or goat? They were to kill it,remove its blood and roast it over an open fire with spices served with bitter greens.They were told to cook it whole and not to break its bones.The Israelites were to eat it hastily before night arrived.When they were done eating nothing was to remain until morning.What ever remained left over was to be burned in the fire completely.

This passover meal with the sacrificial lamb in Egypt was the covenant between God and the nation of Israel.This foreshadowed the coming of Jesus Christ.Do you see the parallels?

The Israelites had a literal sacrificial lamb.Jesus was called the sacrificial lamb.

The Israelites were commanded to do this on Nissan 14th in the month of Abib.
Jesus Christ was executed on Nissan 14th in the month of Abib.


The lambs blood was spilled to protect the first born males of the people of Israel.Jesus blood was spilled to redeem all of mankind and he was Gods firstborn.

The unleavened bread the Israelites ate represented no sin.Yeast represented sin.
Jesus was without sin.

The Israelites were commanded not to break any of the lambs bones when preparing to cook it.
Jesus had none of his bones broken during his execution.This was also a prophecy fulfilled.The men on either side of Jesus had their legs broken .The soldiers saw that Jesus was already dead,so his bones were not broken.


Exodus 12:46 "It must be eaten inside the house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones.

Psalm 34:20
he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.

John 19:36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"


Israelites were commanded to eat this passover meal hastily.Jesus was prepared and rushed to his burial tomb

It all parallels.........


Exodus 12: 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

In the same way this sacrificial lamb in Egypt was consumed in a fire so nothing would be left,so it was with the body of Jesus Christ.God consumed this sacrifice.Jesus Christ.

I believe I am correct according to the scriptures. You are talking about an antecedent event that is not related to what I said other than the fact that the body was dead which is true but the spirit of God always exists and is everywhere.

I believe Jesus did not go to Heaven but went to the heavens. There is a big difference. Acts 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

I believe this is fantsy and totally non-biblical.

It is not inconceivable that God could do that but there is no Biblical evidence that He did. This as an extrabiblical theory must have a reliable source. Do you have one?

 

[Muffled]

Well brother you said it," So in my estimation the Bible is saying that the faithful thief went to Heaven." The holy scriptures are not to be interpreted according to what we think.There is only one interpretation and that is God's. Genesis 40:8 "We both had dreams," they answered, "but there is no one to interpret them." Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams."


Only those who are baptized in the holy spirit, like those at the Pentecost of 33 C.E., will go to Heaven to reign with Jesus Christ.The rest of the people who are forgiven and make it will reside on earth forever.Heaven is only for those who are anointed.This is where Gods government is.The earth was made to be inhabited forever,just as was planned from the beginning with Adam and Eve.Read this.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

So we have God saying He created the Earth to be inhabited forever and we have the Word saying the Meek shall inherit the Earth.

Those who are not of the anointed class will reside on Earth forever.Not Heaven.

Another thing.When it speaks of the time after the 1,000 year reign of peace in the book of Revelation,it mentions this final battle will take place on earth,not Heaven.

Revelation 20:7-10. 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So as you can see all of this takes place on Earth.This is where those who made it through Armageddon,which is Gods great day,will reside.

I believe my understanding of scripture comes from God.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this. Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. I believe anyone can go to Heaven if God wills but not everyone gets into the Kingdom of Heaven which will be upon earth.

I believe Jesus will reign on earth.

I believe the rest of the people who do not make it into the Kingdom on earth will either be on earth not having eternal life or be in Hell or in the heavens although I believe those in the heavens may well be re-incarnated int non-eternal lives.

I believe there is no evidence to support this.