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Jesus as the Lightbringer?
- Thread starter nash8
- Start date
nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
I'm basically bypassing the label-slapping deceptive practices that might be going on between the two camps--not allowing either of the camps to hijack language/labels.
Maybe this music video might help you to understand what I mean by "by their fruits you shall know them."
[youtube]Bwi5SJG3K5M[/youtube]
ARCH ENEMY - Bloodstained Cross (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube
I have no idea what you're trying to do here. It seems that you are doing the exact same thing that you said you weren't doing by presenting this video. And I have no idea how this video relates to by their fruits you shall know them, other than trying to generalize the view of all LHP adherants, as this is "their fruits".
It's about what they are singing about--they are singing about Christian church leaders deceiving people into violence and war, under the banner of religion. That's the fruit you would expect from what I would call antichrist. (Which seems different from what you would like to call it.) I would rather go by the actions/fruits {deception leading to violence/war} rather than try to follow the "shift the label" game, as both the labels and the actions/fruits shift around, with different groups producing the deceptive fruits at different times.
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nash8
Da man, when I walk thru!
Oh, I couldn't understand anything they were saying, so I wouldn't have got that lol.
I would agree with that, and what I'm saying is that general populations would associate those ideas with the antichrist as well. But I'm also saying that I believe that those would be ideas that I think Jesus would have preached as well, except it would be aimed more towards Roman leaders, and Jewish leaders that were being corrupted by Rome (Pharasees, Sadducees).
I'm not trying to shift the label, I'm trying to say I think that the antichrist is actually the second coming of Christ. Due to the my belief that Christ's teachings have been distorted by the church. I don't believe the antichrist will promote killing, adultery, or any other idea that I percieve to be "immoral", but he will promote ideas that go against the grain of society, like not following Christianity, promoting equal rights for Gay people, etc.
Thus in my view, what conservative Christians might deem to be the antichrist, I would actually deem to be the second coming. As the antichrist would actually promote ideas that my view of the real Jesus would have promoted.
Like I said, you'd have to go by their actions at the time. You are using the label (antichrist) that the church might use, rather than the actions. This can lead to much confusion, as it is buying into the label shifting game of the church. (The confusion is evidenced by our difficulty understanding each other on this very thread.)
I personally would rather have known true light-bearers such as Aristotle and Plato.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
They were aristocrats fearful of the lower classes. In that respect they suck and are not light bringers, though their philosophy has been made useful for all people in much later centuries not due to their own efforts. I'm sure I'd have been no better and would have enjoyed slave girls peeling my grapes.Adramelek said:
Jesus Christ is nothing more than a mythological character. You say "aristocrat" as if it were a "bad" thing. :sarcastic Are you sure your in the proper DIR? It is a dog eat dog world and only the fittest survive, this is one law of the universe that can not be defied. Satanists and Setians do not fear as you say the so-called lower class, we simply have no sympathy or respect for those who are unwilling to help and better themselves and their lives. Where there is a Will, there is always a Way!
Sin seriously, and...
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
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Thrice Great
Member
You mean the word "Christ" not the name Jesus
No one knows whether Yeshua the Nazarene existed or not.
Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
In Greek mythology, Hesperus is the personification of the "evening star", the planet Venus in the evening. His name is sometimes conflated with the names for his brother the personification of the planet as the "morning star" Eosphorus (Greek "bearer of dawn") or Phosorus (Ancient Greek:"bearer of light", often translated as "Lucifer" in Latin), since they are all personifications of the same planet Venus.
"Heosphoros" in the Greek LXX Septuagint and "Lucifer" in Jerome's Latin Vulgate were used to translate the Hebrew "Helel" (Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one), "son of Shahar (Dawn)" in the Hebrew version of Isaiah 14:12.
When named thus by the early Greeks, it was thought that Eosphorus (Venus in the morning) and Hesperos (Venus in the evening) were two different celestial objects. The Greeks later accepted the Babylonian view that the two were the same, and the Babylonian identification of the planets with the Great Gods, and dedicated the "wandering star" (planet) to Aphrodite (Roman Venus), as the equivalent.
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It matters not to me whether or not Jesus Christ actually existed. He was a priest of a god of Death, whose religion helped to contribute to the decline of the psyche/mystery religions of the ancient world. Hence plunging mankind into the centuries long dark ages, which helped prove that the masses can be wrong. Personally I am and will always be an anti-Christ who holds in contempt the Christian faith and all of its works. And besides, the day of the cross and the trinity is done. A new Aeon has dawned upon mankind, illuminated by the Black Sun of Midnight!
Xeper and Remanifest.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton!
Xeper and Remanifest.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton!
Leaving both Aristocracy & Jesus out of it, contrast those two (Plato & Aristotle) instead with Alexander the Great. They lived and died boring lives compared to him. Alexander the Great on the other hand made ripples. He was a light bringer, chaotically destroying everything in his wake then sprouting flowers afterward to create a new order. People noticed him, but Aristotle and Plato were more like butterflies to whom Alexander gave his favor. If Alexander hadn't come along we'd never have heard of them.Adramelek said:
We are just lucky to be here and to see what we've seen.
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Not very likely mostly in the fact that his name is neither a name nor original. It's sort of Jehovah+1. (In hebrew YHVH and YHShVH are obviously similar.. and no doubt had an effect similar to branding would do now.. ) Most of the events of the new testament are uncorroborated and can't really stand alone. We also don't have any especially trustworthy references which singly could have probably provided some verification. Christian religion got it's start at the end of the spear when Constantine came to power and converted -- and he did so I believe mostly to protect his mother who was Christian at the time. Without this blessing from the throne which made it the defacto Roman religion (Rome was a big place at the time..) Christianity wouldn't exist. Nearly one-hundred years earlier the original group of followers was completely dead. The religion was basically necro'd back and completely recreated into a martyr cult:
Now let's be honest... This stopped because it was impossible to mediate ones access to divinity if they got a free trip to heaven with every suicide or upon being killed by an enemy. The mediation of this was done at first by the Roman government, and then by the early Vatican. At that juncture it doesn't matter if what people believe is in fact true, but rather that you find a way to reel in the cattle. You can't tax a man's grain if he dies before the harvest. Christianity was established on a basis of complete lunacy so I think I am right to hold any information suspect -- you don't ask mad men for advice regularly do you? The rest of the rules Christians abide by now are mostly about controlling the herd -- you need a priest to speak with your God, you can't use magic or sorcery to access these facilities yourself, and restrictions on sexual behavior and diet or other things. All of these things are what I would do to someone if I was trying to mentally break them in a torture camp. I'd place fear into them and destabilized them by denying them religion, condemning their family, removing any sexual or familiar possibilities. Forcing their diet works as well by denying food they will accept or forcing to eat taboo food.
Conversely, many of the events of the old testament are verified by other cultures (plagues, floods, kings in power, etc...). I don't think you have to believe in the Hebrew God to understand that much. All of the events in the old testament aren't supported, but enough of them are to believe that whoever was compiling it was putting the best of what they knew or understood into the documents. In the case of the old testament most of the problem is establishing a chronology whether than determining whether or not it is mostly truthful (outside of the Hebrew religious biases).
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Thrice Great
Member
:no: Jesus is a character in a book, his actual name was Yeshua, he is the Nazarene. Christ is a title that others wore and means "annointed". Jehova is the name of the Abrahamic god/father.
Its hard to translate you guys into Christian-ees. I've no idea what a black sun would be for instance, and I don't think we are at all on the same page about what antichrist means. I think maybe to communicate the two groups would have to avoid words that they have in common, since they have differing definitions.
Black Hole Sun -- Soundgarden
Black Hole Sun -- Soundgarden
Let's not even limit it to that, there's many names that can be thrown into the list. Like Alan Moore.
I have no idea either to be honest. It sounded like Adramalak was using it as a metaphor to refer to somethig else, but I don't know. I think antichrist may mean someone against Biblical principles. Not too sure about that one either. It's just a lot of play by some folks as part of their antinomian explorations.
Well, if you are interested in my interpretation, which may or may not be what Adramelek is conveying, here it is, fwiw.
If the physical is just a (distorted) shadow manifestation of the spiritual, then the black sun would be the unseen spiritual light/guidance, and midnight would mean that you would have to look deep within your psyche in order to tune into it. From the state that the earth is in, I would say that the distortion factor would have to be rather high between the spiritual and the physical--resulting in the hellish state we have. However, one would have to make on's psyche/mind less prone to the distortion we see from the physical manifestation in order for it to be of benefit.
[youtube]NIylUcGDi-Y[/youtube]
INVISIBLE SUN-The Police - YouTube
How far off base am I, Adramelek?
I really don't think your that far off base crossfire, all I will say is that the term "Black Sun of Midnight" holds a special meaning to me on a very personal level. I will not try to define it for others, I'd rather they come to their own understanding. Whether or not I agree or disagree with others' interpretation of the term is beside the point.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton!