james2ko
Well-Known Member
Wait a minute...a discussion with a JW about the Trinity? Noooooo.
Here "firstborn" doesn't mean "first-created". It means "preeminence". I don't mean to over-analyze, but to me it just doesn't make any sense to call Jesus "first born" in the sense of "first created" and then proceed to state that he created all things (in the following verses).
I'm not so sure. The Greek term for firstborn [prototokos] is derived from two Greek words. "Protos" [g4413] which means " foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all)". Interestingly enough, this is the root of our English word "prototype". The second term, "tikto", is defined as: to produce (from seed, as a mother, a plant, the earth, etc.), literal or figurative: - bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail. If Paul wanted to engender "preeminence" without the connotation of a birth/creation, he would have used the term he used in Col 1:18 [proteuon]. Instead he uses a term that is used throughout scripture to signify the first of its kind produced/created.
It seems as if a word is missing if that were the case...JW's put the word [other] in brackets as such, so readers can know that Jesus created all "other" things. Now that actually makes more sense...the problem is, it is adding words to the bible to change the context of what Paul was saying. If Paul wanted to say it, it would have said it. If we have to rely on uninspired man to add words to the bible to get us to understand it, then something is wrong here.
Have a reference?
Second, look at what it states in verse 14, that we have forgiveness of our sins through Jesus. How can we have forgiveness of our sins by way of a mere creation? Makes no sense. Who but God can forgive sins? Would only make sense if Jesus is actually God.
Similar to God forgiving OT Israel's sins by sacrificing created creatures [animals].