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Jesus allows no divorce for his followers why?

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Because divorce is a sin according to the Jewish bible.
And if your marriage isn't working and divorce is simple
and acceptable then it becomes easier for others to also
divorce - and these days, divorce even for marriages that
haven't failed. Half of all Western kids now come from
broken homes, so you can understand why people back
then fully supported the biblical attitude towards divorce.
Not only that but, a true follower of Jesus Christ would not create a situation that led to a divorce. It’s an unfortunate wording but do you see that the cause of the divorce is the woman committing adultery. In Jewish society, family is very strongly knitted. A family with several children is a huge factor to consider if a man were to marry again - and the woman too. If she had more children by the new husband then there could be a possible inter-relational marriage of her children since Jews lived in a singular society.

Moreover, there were many processes to go through before a divorce was granted by which a marital problem could be resolved. There are still smatterings of this today but there is no real bite to them and with the open society we live in today, no one is truly bothered by ‘marriage guidance’ or ‘mediation’. An angry man likely will stay angry only for a short time, a drunkard is like a leopard, and a Cheetah is just that!!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
He opens by quoting Acts 2:22-23 which has two caveats. First the verse states that if some Jews did have Jesus killed that they did it in ignorance. Secondly it refers to all the prophecies about Israel: "The suffering servant" and "The Son" as if they are *also* about a man named Jesus. Therefore if it supports any conclusion it is that Israel's fate is mirroring Jesus fate.

What is said about Jesus is said about Israel. They share a fate. The Son = The Son. The Servant = The Servant. Jesus cannot be separated from the prophecies about Israel. Prophecies about Israel are applied to Jesus by Peter and by Paul. The two (Jesus and Israel) are tied by Peter in the same figure to the same prophecies.

The significance is: A discussion about why Jesus suffers is also a discussion about why Israel does. Any argument justifying Jesus is an argument justifying Israel. Does Jesus suffering prove that he was disobedient? No? Then it is arguing that neither has Israel suffered at the hand of Rome for wilful disobedience.

"There are several observations which are pertinent to our theme. First and foremost, the insistent refrain of all the speeches is that the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death." Wilson strains out the gnat but swallows the camel. Yes they constantly say the Jews are responsible, for the death of Jesus which is also the death of Israel; however as many times as they say that the Jews are responsible they say more times that it is for the good of the world.

In the gospels, in Acts and in the letters, the unjust death of Jesus is constantly attributed to ignorance which has significant implications in the law which S. G. Wilson does not treat. No murder (according to the law) can be expunged through sacrifice unless it has been done accidentally, in ignorance or by a murderer who is never found. The point is not an accusation but a denial that Israel has knowingly brought about its fate at the hands of the Romans, implying that its errors can be expunged, that it can rise again, that this is not the end threatened at Horeb (Deut 9:8). It refers to the story where the L-RD wants to wipe out every Israelite except Moses and start over with Moses. So the gospels are arguing that the Jews shall be preserved.

Paul states as much himself directly. (Romans 11:26). He says *All* Israel shall be saved and not only a remnant. When Israel has been in wilful sin then only a remnant is preserved, but Paul says that all Israel will be preserved. If the Jews were willing killers of Jesus Paul wouldn't say this, the gospels wouldn't say that Jesus was killed through ignorance. They would condemn rather than exonerate Israel. It would be an admission that Judaism failed, that everything was over.
‘Israel’ is used as a term for “all whom are God’s people”. Therefore, all who are saved at the end of time will be ‘Israel’.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
@Harel, are you familiar with any Jewish research concerning the Apostle Paul(Saul). References to Paul (Catholic grammar and high school) and commercial reading I've done have neglected to mention Paul was a Jew.They left me with the impression Paul was a Roman.
Paul was BOTH a Jew AND a Roman.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
But at several points in the Gospels, Jesus encourages his disciples to completely abandon their families and spouses, so it doesn't seem like he cared much about keeping families together.
That’s not what is meant by what Jesus said.

What Jesus was saying was that those who believe in him and that God sent him were to separate (or would be separated) from those who didn’t believe - even within a family. I think the only exception was a married couple wherein one believer of the pair would ‘save’ the non-believing other since they are a united coupling and cannot divorce except for adultery.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Ridiculous. Protestants have the highest divorce rate of any religious group. Atheists are actually pretty low.
Protestants are not true followers of Jesus Christ!

Atheists? Following Christ brings its own contentions which are not faced by atheists.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@Harel, are you familiar with any Jewish research concerning the Apostle Paul(Saul). References to Paul (Catholic grammar and high school) and commercial reading I've done have neglected to mention Paul was a Jew.They left me with the impression Paul was a Roman.
Rome incorporated some of its conquered peoples into its citizenry, granted by generals and stuff. Paul was a Jew who was a Roman citizen. He is the Great Apostate, IMHO. He was also a Moser.

Philippians 3:6–5: “If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee.”
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
That’s not what is meant by what Jesus said.

Then I'm glad you're here to tell us what Jesus really meant.

What Jesus was saying was that those who believe in him and that God sent him were to separate (or would be separated) from those who didn’t believe - even within a family.

Isn't that just a rephrasing of what I said?

I think the only exception was a married couple wherein one believer of the pair would ‘save’ the non-believing other since they are a united coupling and cannot divorce except for adultery.
That bit is from Paul, not Jesus, IIRC.

In any case, I can't recall many - if any - married couples at all among the disciples. Considering how much of an obligation there would have been at the time for marriage, it sure seems that while Jesus may not have approved of divorce, he was just fine with spouses abandoning their marriages.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Then I'm glad you're here to tell us what Jesus really meant.



Isn't that just a rephrasing of what I said?


That bit is from Paul, not Jesus, IIRC.

In any case, I can't recall many - if any - married couples at all among the disciples. Considering how much of an obligation there would have been at the time for marriage, it sure seems that while Jesus may not have approved of divorce, he was just fine with spouses abandoning their marriages.
You forget that at that time Jesus was calling for evangelists who would commit themselves fully towards the cause God anointed and sent him to accomplish. Being married would be a distraction since, as was pointed out in the scriptures, a person with land and property might be concerned that robbers might come and take it while gf was away - a distraction; that family might call on him to be concerned about some problem back home - a distraction; that a wife might commit adultery while he was away - a distraction. Such a command to remain unmarried does not apply today as there are evangelists all over the world and no one is called to be away from home for intensely long periods of time.

That saying, someone committed to the cause of Jesus would not be defeated by lust and if they face it then they should discuss it with their leaders who would pray with them to offsway it.

But because there was a call for not marrying if you evangelise, the lustful feelings fell more on men who maybe should have married - you see it in the Catholic Church where many men commit grievous lustful sins against boys as it might be more obvious if it were a girl (Girls tend to talk more with each other and share such feelings - boys feel more ashamed and keep stum!)
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Forty years is a trial period? Oh please. This is just your desperate attempt to make something that happened 40 years later related to Jesus death.
I believe I did not have to make anything up. It exists. I believe what some do is just close their eyes and pretend things don't exist because they are unpleasant.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
We didn't kill him.

He didn't act like the messiah.
I believe that is what the Qu'ran says also. I believe one can't think of this as a Jewish thing. Jesus said that those who were trying to kill Him were doing so because they were serving their master the devil. There isn't anything Jewish in that. The religious leaders were renowned as Jews but they were far from it.

I believe Jesus did act like the Messiah but just not the same way people wanted Him to act. So if people don't like the way God does things then He can't be God. God isn't into pleasing people otherwise we would all be lottery winners.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
But he only allowed divorce for adultery. If a wife was beaten by her husband, she was stuck with him. How ethical is this teaching?
I believe that is the null hypothesis. Just because He doesn't mention beating doesn't mean it isn't covered in a way. I believe His statement was in the context of marital infidelity.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I believe that is the null hypothesis. Just because He doesn't mention beating doesn't mean it isn't covered in a way. I believe His statement was in the context of marital infidelity.
Oh please. Beating your wife is entirely unrelated to adultery.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Oh please. Beating your wife is entirely unrelated to adultery.
The Jews, being a single cohesive grouping, married within that grouping and had strict rules on ways of dealing with all issues including matters of marriage and divorce.

Problems within a marriage were talked about in tier level interventions and so matters such as ‘wife beating’ would be talked about and an attempt at mediation would be put in place. The man (typically!) would have to raise a charge as to why he was beating his wife and his wife could raise a defence as to why she thinks or knows he is beating her. A judgement would be made at each level or passed onto a higher level for more serious causes.

Eventually a final ruling would be made which could result in stoning the wife for grave infidelity or the husband imprisoned for outrageous behaviour.

Of course, every effort would previously be made to reach an amicable arrangement since family unity was extremely important to the hewish community.

A woman leaving her marriage might end up destitute, abandoned, alone, divested of her children … since the Jews looked after their own, the woman would only be taken in as a slave to another household or left to become a prostitute or beggar.

It would not be a good look on the nation of Jews if their women were being made into slaves, prostitutes, and beggars.

TODAY the world does not live in a ‘single grouping’ like we see the Jews did (Heathens and Pagan nation behaviours were disregarded for their behaviours in this regard). So all patterns of behaviours are melded together in one boiling pot. We do have mediations for family issues but many people refuse any interference in their family situations and so bad behaviours are hard to attend to if (typically, the man) refuses any accommodation. Perhaps only when things have reached an awful level Will the police authority step in to aid in raising a change against the man or a Good Samaritan organisation step in to aid the woman.

It’s a strange thing to think of why a man seeks to abuse his wife - perhaps he married her too young and she developed into someone who didn’t feel compliant with his idea of a wife; perhaps she married him for wealth or security and found that now gone … there are umpteen reasons … The point is that there is no longer any really effective mediation sessioning and the majority of people seek divorce without any thought of proper reconciliation …

And, of course, the vows to God to live together in sickness or health; in richness or poverty; seeking only to each other in sexual unity; till death … letting no man set them apart - according to God’s good ordinance … no longer has any meaning at all. It’s just a thing that is said blithely in a wedding ceremony without any real thought of actual adherence.

Lastly, divorce in a community of people is direct violation of ‘one flesh joined to another’. Adultery is a knife slice between the one flesh of the two. Adultery can lead to children being born to the woman by two different men. The Jews are heavy on paternity and passing on the wealth of the Father to his male children. If a mother cannot distinguish which of her children are from which man then there will be serious issues looking forward. A divorce settles the matter unless the man decides to forgive his wife and retain her in the marriage and take on any child from the adultery as his own (perhaps to the horror of his true male heirs!)
 
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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Those STINKERS!
I don’t use such words but just saying that Nor are Trinitarians or Modalists (Oneness : Pentecostal or Apostolics) true followers of Jesus Christ.

Indeed, how can Jesus be God seated on the throne of God if he is CHRIST seated NEXT TO GOD?:
  • “Christ is, seated at the right hand of God” (Col 1:3)
Satan tempts people to want to put Jesus on the throne of God and he worshipped: A place that he, Satan, tried put himself but failed - bitterness drives him to put sin in Christ Jesus by lauding Jesus to the throne of God… already we see the great church preaching that believers are to WORSHIP JESUS!!

Notice that Satan also desires the same to PROCLAIM worship of the Spirit of God (Called ‘The Holy Spirit’) … but no one ever really does - which raises the question as to how only the Father, and the Son, are worshipped AS GOD but the claimed ‘third person’ is not worshipped!!!!? Yet they are supposedly all the one same Almighty God?
 
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