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Featured Jesus allows no divorce for his followers why?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Leahpolitan_icecream, Dec 4, 2021.

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  1. Leahpolitan_icecream

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    Title question :)
    But why did he do this? I skipped to the Gospels in my bible read through which is exciting but some things Jesus did I didn't like, this is one

    Overall he seems nice, but Jews kill him even though he acts like their leader they always wanted? I don't like Peter he is too pushy sometimes
     
  2. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    The Jews didn't kill Jesus and he acted nothing like the leader they want.
     
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  3. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    Sacramental marriage has no divorce because it is an image of the Lord Jesus and His Church, and He does not divorce the Church ever. Moreover He also gives His reasoning for it saying:

    "From the beginning of creation ‘he [God] made them male and female. Because of this a man will leave his father and mother and will be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh,’ so that they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, man must not separate."

    As for why the some of the Israelites after the flesh in that time participated in the murder of the God of Israel, hardness of heart, spiritual blindness, and so on. As St. Paul says: "we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery, which God predestined before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew. For if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

    Yet all of these events were predestined, and in studying one sees them being fulfilled daily and why they occurred, in part. St. Paul's Epistles go into it a lot and so do the Church Fathers.

    St. Peter was a bold soul indeed, but he was the first in rank among them, so it makes sense.

    All my opinion of course.
     
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  4. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    In cases of adultery divorce is permitted. I think that’s about the only time. Why? Possibly because divorce destroys the family, the family was the basic unit that kept society together. That’s just my guess.
     
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  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Strangely, we're right in the middle of studying different views of divorce during the Second Temple Era in one of my history courses. The topic is a specialty of the professor teaching us.

    The core issue seems to be that there was a debate at the time whether divorce was allowed or not. Some people, like Jesus, thought that the Torah allowed divorce only because of the low spiritual level of the Israelites at the time, but when striving for a higher spiritual level, one should not divorce. The reason being that when man and wife marry, they become spiritually one, returning to the way man and woman were created in Genesis, as a unified entity. This unity is not something that may be reversed, not even through divorce, for they become "one flesh". Flesh cannot be divided without harming it.
     
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  6. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    He allowed divorce in the case of adultery, but for some reason the Catholic church has ignored that, and other Christians don't really follow that either. The Protestants seem to see laws like this as suggestions. There was very little in terms of religious law given by Christ, and Christians have come to see that as a virtue and slam religions that have religious laws. Just stating an observation.
     
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  7. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    The Jewish leaders agitated for the Romans to kill Jesus according to the Gospels. Whether you believe that account is another matter.

    Yes, the Jews wanted a leader to overthrow the Romans, and there were other prophecies they considered Jesus didn't fulfill, so they thought He could not be the Messiah, and they didn't expect a Messiah that would make such high spiritual claims for Himself.
     
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  8. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    Why the ignoring of divorce being possible in case of adultery, in your opinion?
     
  9. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    I'm not doing this again. Look up where the messianic prophecies come from and what they are on your own. It's not my fault the Christians have successfully duped everyone into believing this peaceful messiah nonsense.
     
  10. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    I deny that divorce is possible in a Sacramental marriage, even in the case of adultery, and I deny that He ever said such was possible. You will find that the passage people use to support that idea is much debated, although I consider my enemies in this case to be beneath my dignity to engage with.

    In merely natural marriage (the sort Moses presided over) divorce and polygyny is possible, in Sacramental marriage it is not.

    All my opinion of course.
     
  11. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes the teaching on divorce is tough. I don't have a good explanation, except that it might have been to protect the women in that era, who could easily be got rid of with no obligation to support them - and who might find it hard to remarry, not being virgins. But I'm speculating a bit.

    Peter is generally considered to be an impulsive character, but to have the strongest faith of all of them. So yes pushy maybe at times.

    Christ was put to death by the Roman governor, after annoying the Jewish religious establishment enough for them to want to get rid of him. And he was not the leader they hoped for. What they wanted was to be liberated from their colonial oppressors. Christ did not offer anything like that.
     
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  12. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Can you quote where Jesus said a divorcing was wrong? It is found in the beginning of Matthew 19. If you look at the context it was the religious leaders, the Pharisees, that asked him in verse 3, if it was lawful for a man to divorce on every sort of grounds.

    Now in the law to Moses a divorcing was allowed, but it was not for any petty thing. And obviously was not pertaining to adultery. Why? Because under the law an adulterer was to be put to death. But getting a divorce was to be no petty or easy matter. The law stipulated he had to find “something indecent” in her. The man had to have a certificate of divorce drawn up. That means he had to consult with a duly authorized authority that could write up this certificate. This would allow for both time for the husband to reflect on what he was doing, as well as have the authorized persons/s try to affect a reconciliation. (Deuteronomy 24:1)

    By Malachi’s day Jews were divorcing their wives for all sorts of reasons, which was displeasing in God’s eyes. (Malachi 2:10-16). No wonder the Pharisees asked Jesus if it was okay on “every sort of grounds” as had become the custom. But Jesus’ response clears things up for us in Matthew 19:4-9. He shows that Jehovah God allowed for the certificate of divorce because of their hard-heartedness (a trait the Jews as a whole always had). But that Jehovah hates a divorce. And then corrects things the way they should have originally been to begin with stating that divorce was wrong expect on the grounds of adultery. (In the Christian congregation which was soon to be instituted the law of Moses was done away with along with the stipulation of putting to death an adulterer and fornicator. Therefore it would be acceptable for a Christian to divorce their marriage mate if that mate wronged the innocent mate by committing an act of adultery.)

    Why do you view Jesus’ explanation of divorcing as unlikeable? I can see a couple of reasons aside from adultery that a marriage mate may need to leave their spouse. One would be gross neglect on the part of the husband to care for his family, and the other would be gross abuse, emotional and physical by a spouse to the point where the welfare of the innocent mate is in jeopardy. In these extreme cases a separation would no doubt be beneficial and necessary. But a remarrying would not be granted under God’s stipulation, if the spouse had not committed adultery. In that case the innocent mate would remain separated but not remarry.
     
    #12 Eyes to See, Dec 4, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's important to understand that Jesus was a Jew, preaching. mostly, to other Jews.

    As a Jew, he followed the Judaic laws and proscriptions. And he admonished his fellow Jews to do the same. But Jews both then and now are NOT evangelical. They did not and do not believe that any non-Jew needs to become a Jew to fulfill his or her place before God. Jesus would not have admonished any non-Jew to abide by any Jewish religious customs or proscriptions regarding marriage or divorce, or anything else. He even declared these as empty religious posturing among the Jews unless they were engage in accompanied by the requisite spiritual intention.

    So no Christian, today, is being held to any Judaic religious standards regarding marriage or divorce (or diet, or worship, or anything else) from Jesus' perspective, as we are not Jews.
     
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  14. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    That the Christian congregation was put under divine inspiration to follow Jesus’ words regards divorcing just look at the Christian scriptures. For example Romans 7:3:

    So, then, while her husband is living, she would be called an adulteress if she became another man’s. But if her husband dies, she is free from his law, so that she is not an adulteress if she becomes another man’s.

    1 Corinthians 7:10, 11.

    To the married people I give instructions, not I but the Lord, that a wife should not separate from her husband. But if she does separate, let her remain unmarried or else be reconciled with her husband; and a husband should not leave his wife.


     
  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Paul's opinions about it are not Jesus' opinions about it. Paul was never a Jew. And he certainly wasn't Jesus. So Christians can follow Paul's opinions if they feel it's spiritually appropriate, OR NOT. Either way, they remain in Christ.
     
  16. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Paul was a Jew, in fact he was a Pharisee, of the house of Benjamin:

    “Circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born from Hebrews; regarding law, a Pharisee.”-Philippians 3:5.

    Paul’s words make up part of the holy writings of truth and were inspired by God. He even writes in his inspired words there quoted that it was the Lord, and not himself, that made such a stipulation about marriage.
     
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  17. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    Now that's the whole Cirque du Soleil. Any evidence that this was the case?
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Sorry, I thought he was a Roman citizen persecuting the early Christians (as Saul). I did not realize he was a Jew.

    But he was a zealot, which is a Jew of a different color, so to speak.

    Nevertheless, he had no authority to be proclaiming any Christian religious rules beyond those stated by Jesus to apply to everyone (not just his fellow Jews): to love God, ourselves, and each other as one and the same, because as we do to even the least among us, we are doing unto God.
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    There is more to it. The RC stopped recognizing divorce somewhere along the way. Protestant churches usually recognize it. Some do not.

    Christ Jesus (in Matthew) recognizes divorce, however he says that the cause for divorce (by men) is stubborn pride. For that reason a man is sometimes referred to in churches as the priest of his household, because it is up to the male to make peace. This a quality that I presume is inherited from Jewish culture.

    I think you are mistaken. Did you know that 30,000 Jews were crucified by the Romans around the times we are discussing?

    Jews don't speak directly of their dead. I don't know why this is, however they do not. Combine this with the knowledge that 30,000 Jewish men are killed by the Romans around the time of Jesus. The streets are lined with their crosses. Blood flows everywhere. Perhaps Jesus is like a type of all of the Jews who are butchered by the Romans. In other words he could be a way to speak about them indirectly and to deal with questions about why such things take place. You and I live thousands of years later and may not have a good grasp of why the gospels are written the way they are. We are looking into someone else's phone conversations and only seeing part of the dialogue. Its that long ago, and people don't talk the same way.

    Jesus is crucified by the Romans just like tens of thousands are crucified by the Romans. The reason he is accused (by some Jews) in the gospels is complicated and perhaps mystical, but his execution is by the hand of the Romans. Its simple. Romans kills Jews and don't respect Judaism and generally are warlike anger monsters relatively speaking. No Jew kills Jesus. As so many Jews are crucified by Romans, so is Jesus.
     
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  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    ...:eek:o_O
     
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