Jehovah's Witnesses continuing persecution in Russia....

[74x12]

Maybe Chinese are not happy with cultural imperialism,
such as promoted / forced by the West.

Who needs "Lo here" and, "Lo there" in a thousand
directions?

Look how the USA is split.

Another lil detail is, a nation that honours Confucian
ideals like valuing education is not the place for
people to come in and promote anti intellectualism,
require its members to shun education and embrace
superstition.

Such churches are a disgrace to Christianity and
an insult to the intelligence of the human race.

Christianity is not even a western religion. It's from the middle east. And, I have news for you. Christianity is growing in China.

 

[Audie]

Christianity is not even a western religion. It's from the middle east. And, I have news for you. Christianity is growing in China.

You somehow think I am so uneducated?

And somehow all you could derive from what I
said is lame observations delivered with
a gratuitous insult? Yuck!

 

[74x12]

You somehow think I am so uneducated?

And somehow all you could derive from what I
said is lame observations delivered with
a gratuitous insult? Yuck!

I get it. You support the persecution of Chinese Christians. You've made yourself abundantly clear. I don't have much to say to that. Maybe I could say that your lack of interest in basic human rights is ... concerning? I'm not surprised from your previous statements!

 

[Audie]

I get it. You support the persecution of Chinese Christians. You've made yourself abundantly clear. I don't have much to say to that. Maybe I could say that your lack of interest in basic human rights is ... concerning? I'm not surprised from your previous statements!

All you see is the inside of your own skull.

 

[Deeje]

Do they do the same as the JW's here, and reject all forms of national government? That could be seen as an issue.

This is classic misinformation. JW's oppose no governments and are more conscientious about obeying them than most. If all citizens were JW's, there would be no need for police or courts or jails....and everyone would pay their fair share of taxes as Jesus told us to.

The only thing we refuse to do is disobey God, no matter who tells us to do so. That means that we will not involve ourselves in political issues because Jesus told us to be NO part of this world and its corrupt practices.....no part of its bloodshed....and not swayed by its nationalistic spirit. We take a completely neutral stance...but we will defend our right to do do what Christ commissioned us to do......preach the Christian message.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

This is classic misinformation. JW's oppose no governments and are more conscientious about obeying them than most. If all citizens were JW's, there would be no need for police or courts or jails.

There's the caveat. Tell me, deeje, how do you feel about the flag? When was the last time you voted? Who was the last JW political official? When was the last time, at all, that Jehovah's Witnesses contributed at all to the society and government that they benefit from? Note that I said reject government, not oppose it, as you back up with your whole "Jesus told us" bit. Sure, you all follow the law as laid down, but is it from respect of that law? For the government that enforces it? For the national society that voted it into effect?

but we will defend our right to do do what Christ commissioned us to do......preach the Christian message.

Using the rights that we gave you. The irony is palpable.

 

[Deeje]

I agree with your general gist, but i don't know that I agree with the idea that JWs are a "dangerous cult", per se, nor that they should be outlawed.

I mean sure, the transfusion thing seems ridiculously silly to me, but medical self determination is a human right I will always support. It's perfectly valid for anyone to decline life saving medical intervention, assuming fully informed adult consent. People do it all the time. Think people declining chemotherapy or dialysis. I don't see why JW's should be held to a different standard to anyone else, even if their reasoning is incomprehensible to many.

Well I guess I should thank you for those concessions......but I really have to ask if you know anything about blood transfusions medically speaking, that address the actual downside of that procedure?

I will address this to @outlawState as well. Would it surprise you to know, for example, that more people die after receiving a blood transfusion (or multiple transfusions) than those who ever die from refusing them? Would it surprise you to know that Jehovah's Witnesses will happily use alternative measures that make transfusions unnecessary? Did you know that safer alternatives even exist?

Would it surprise you to know that transfusions carry greater risk of death and morbidity than any other procedure used in medicine and that hospitals dedicated to non-blood alternative medicine have sprung up all over the world because of the positive outcomes experienced with JW's?

The following short video was put up on the Australian Government website as a warning about the overuse of this dangerous procedure. In our experience, if a person dies because they rejected a blood transfusion, in all probability, they would have died regardless. Blood is no guarantee of saving a life.

Patient Blood Management (PBM) | National Blood Authority

Please consider the evidence for yourself and then tell us if we are not wise for rejecting this procedure which is of course, based on the Bible's prohibition on blood. (Acts 15:28-29)
We can't forget that blood is a multi-million dollar industry and those who profit from it are not going to let that cash cow go without a fight. Do you think they care about how dangerous it is? Who blames them if someone dies? Do you think they are going to let doctors who can't be bothered to do their own research, see anything wrong with it. Lazy, out of date doctors are a blight on the medical system.

 

[John53]

If all citizens were JW's, there would be no need for police or courts or jails....and everyone would pay their fair share of taxes as Jesus told us to.

Let's hope for the sake of children that never happens.

Report into Jehovah’s Witness organisations released | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

 

[Audie]

Let's hope for the sake of children that never happens.

Report into Jehovah’s Witness organisations released | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

If all the citizens of some country were JW,
that nation would soon cease to exist.

To the extent that each JW dumbs down
(see their stance on education) a nation,
they weaken it.

No nation is going to benefit from a cult
of superstition and ignorance.

If the Russians sent over cult leaders to
start up cells in the USA, few would be
amused.

 

[Deeje]

There's the caveat. Tell me, deeje, how do you feel about the flag?

What flag? It is a piece of colored cloth that represents a nation. To worship it is idolatry in our book. We respect our nation and obey its laws, but we will not worship an idol.

When was the last time you voted?

Never. That way I do not stand condemned by God for what those governments do whilst in office. Think of the blood of innocent women and children killed in wars by governments that people voted for.

Who was the last JW political official?

Never...we are NO part of that world....and never will be. We do not carry weapons, nor are we a threat to anyone.
Political officials are often forced to do things that disturbs their conscience greatly....we do not have that problem. We are free from the blood that others carry.

When was the last time, at all, that Jehovah's Witnesses contributed at all to the society and government that they benefit from?

The last time we paid our taxes. No one pays taxes more honestly than we do. That is because we have a conscience, and because we have no say in how that money is spent. If it pays for our children's schooling and other beneficial amenities, then we see that our own tax money is used for our benefit. How about you?

Note that I said reject government, not oppose it, as you back up with your whole "Jesus told us" bit. Sure, you all follow the law as laid down, but is it from respect of that law? For the government that enforces it? For the national society that voted it into effect?

Do you think governments want you to like them? They may curry your favor by promising you the world, but in reality what do they deliver? We do not seek to tear down the system even though it is riddled with corruption....we will let God do that in his own time and way...in the meantime we will just keep preaching until God says it is finished.

Using the rights that we gave you. The irony is palpable.

Ignorance is a terrible handicap. "You" gave us nothing.

Do you value your right to practice your own faith? So do we.

 

[Deeje]

Let's hope for the sake of children that never happens.

Report into Jehovah’s Witness organisations released | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

.....oh my lets not forget the children! Good grief are you serious? The Boy Scouts were more open to child abuse than we ever knew how to be. What a blatant attempt at emotional trolling.

No one can keep pedophiles out of their organizations because they are good con artists, and in times past everyone handled it badly....we are grateful that it has more protective measures in place now. We can look to the future with a little more confidence now, but we will never stamp it out in this rotten world where pedophiles are fed via the internet....I think we can even expect it to get worse.

 

[Audie]

Ignorance is indeed a terrible handicap.

You've provided a tidy way of explaining a big part
of why the Chinese govt lacks enthusiasm for JW.

Now, if they were a group driven to overachievement
in, oh, math and science say, and they stood squarely
behind the nation, ready to defend it any way they
could, it would likely turn out that any eccentricities
could be overlooked.

As it is, the JW are pretty much the opposite.

Why would any sane govt want that to spread?

 

[Audie]

.....oh my lets not forget the children! Good grief are you serious? The Boy Scouts were more open to child abuse than we ever knew how to be. What a blatant attempt at emotional trolling.

No one can keep pedophiles out of their organizations because they are good con artists, and in times past everyone handled it badly....we are grateful that it has more protective measures in place now. We can look to the future with a little more confidence now, but we will never stamp it out in this rotten world where pedophiles are fed via the internet....I think we can even expect it to get worse.

Gracious! Snark, name calling, followed by finger pointing and excuses!
Alarms and excursions!

I didnt know paedophilia was such a prob in JW!

Still, we know from many examples that the more
a person preaches about the horrors of sin,
the more we know they's talkin' about themselves.

The Bard put it as, "doth protest too much".

A hint for the guilty and innocent alike.

 

[John53]

.....oh my lets not forget the children! Good grief are you serious? The Boy Scouts were more open to child abuse than we ever knew how to be. What a blatant attempt at emotional trolling.

If someone else does it that makes it ok? What a ridiculous argument.

Emotional trolling lol. In other words do not disagree with me or I'll persecute you... hmmm

No one can keep pedophiles out of their organizations because they are good con artists, and in times past everyone handled it badly....we are grateful that it has more protective measures in place now. We can look to the future with a little more confidence now, but we will never stamp it out in this rotten world where pedophiles are fed via the internet....I think we can even expect it to get worse.

So we would still need the police and courts in an all JW society. Thieves, liars and murderers are good con artists too.

 

[Deeje]

Gracious! Snark, name calling, followed by finger pointing and excuses!
Alarms and excursions!

Over reaction much?

I didnt know paedophilia was such a prob in JW!

No more of a problem than it was for any other organized body of people with children.

Still, we know from many examples that the more
a person preaches about the horrors of sin,
the more we know they's talkin' about themselves.

The Bard put it as, "doth protest too much".

A hint for the guilty and innocent alike.

another one. Judge and jury are we?

Please get your facts straight. Pedophilia was a huge problem for every orgnization who had access to children...including ours.....why? Because pedophiles don't have a sign tattooed across their foreheads.
They infiltrate by deception. We are very trusting....just the way they like it.

In times past it was handled badly and the judicial process was often more traumatic for the victim than the original offense. We have admitted our mistakes and corrected them.....what more would you like?

I see people with a little bit of knowledge pointing fingers at a very small part of the problem. Apply it where it needs to be applied across all organizations who were involved.

And let the ones without sin point the biggest fingers.....because they are obviously more perfect than the rest of us.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Well I guess I should thank you for those concessions......but I really have to ask if you know anything about blood transfusions medically speaking, that address the actual downside of that procedure?

I will address this to @outlawState as well. Would it surprise you to know, for example, that more people die after receiving a blood transfusion (or multiple transfusions) than those who ever die from refusing them? Would it surprise you to know that Jehovah's Witnesses will happily use alternative measures that make transfusions unnecessary? Did you know that safer alternatives even exist?

Would it surprise you to know that transfusions carry greater risk of death and morbidity than any other procedure used in medicine and that hospitals dedicated to non-blood alternative medicine have sprung up all over the world because of the positive outcomes experienced with JW's?

The following short video was put up on the Australian Government website as a warning about the overuse of this dangerous procedure. In our experience, if a person dies because they rejected a blood transfusion, in all probability, they would have died regardless. Blood is no guarantee of saving a life.

Patient Blood Management (PBM) | National Blood Authority

Please consider the evidence for yourself and then tell us if we are not wise for rejecting this procedure which is of course, based on the Bible's prohibition on blood. (Acts 15:28-29)
We can't forget that blood is a multi-million dollar industry and those who profit from it are not going to let that cash cow go without a fight. Do you think they care about how dangerous it is? Who blames them if someone dies? Do you think they are going to let doctors who can't be bothered to do their own research, see anything wrong with it. Lazy, out of date doctors are a blight on the medical system.

I'm a nurse. I'm pretty happy with my knowledge around transfusions and other blood product treatments, thanks.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If all citizens were JW's, there would be no need for police or courts or jails....and everyone would pay their fair share of taxes as Jesus told us to.

Sure. Why not?

 

[John53]

And let the ones without sin point the biggest fingers.....because they are obviously more perfect than the rest of us.

Ironic considering your OP.

 

[John53]

I didnt know paedophilia was such a prob in JW!

Probably not any worse than other organisations or the population in general. What is unforgivable is the cover up of the crimes which allowed the perpetrators to continue uninhibited.

Taken from here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses'_handling_of_child_sex_abuse

"In 2015, it was disclosed that the Australia Branch of Jehovah's Witnesses had records of 1,006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse, relating to more than 1,800 victims since 1950, none of which were reported to police by the church."

 

[Mox]

Intriguing thread, certainly jam packed with intolerance and bigotry. Interesting very interesting.

From what I have read there was nothing posted by Deeje to warrant such unnecessary hostility and attacks from other posters on this thread.

I would caution all who live in glasshouses and would throw stones....