AmerikanZen
Active Member
Can anyone here teach on the Dharma in context of Soto Zen?...
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Japanese Soto Zen and understanding the Dharma
- Thread starter AmerikanZen
- Start date
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
Soto zen, like has been mentioned around here before, focuses mainly on the practice of shikantaza, just sitting. The Japanese version of the school was brought to Japan by Dogen Zenji after having studied, practiced, and been enlightened, in China.
Not too much different, as far as the base points, from any other school of zen, which, bye the way, includes Rinzai and Obaku. I always forget the name "Obaku"
and most people dont even know that it exists.
I recommend reading this to start: BZC: FUKANZAZENGI
The Fukanzazengi is Dogen's instructions on the practice of Zazen, which is the point of Soto Zen.
Not too much different, as far as the base points, from any other school of zen, which, bye the way, includes Rinzai and Obaku. I always forget the name "Obaku"
and most people dont even know that it exists.I recommend reading this to start: BZC: FUKANZAZENGI
The Fukanzazengi is Dogen's instructions on the practice of Zazen, which is the point of Soto Zen.
Ablaze
Buddham Saranam Gacchami
Soto Zen focuses on silent illumination and just sitting - meditation without any object or content - direct seeing.
When Dogen was asked what he brought back with him from China, he said he came empty-handed, remarking "eyes horizontal, nose vertical."
Dogen's style of teaching was simplified from all abstractions, a return to our basic nature. Soto Zen is part of Dogen's legacy, a here-and-now path to enlightenment.
This is the essence of Soto Zen.
When Dogen was asked what he brought back with him from China, he said he came empty-handed, remarking "eyes horizontal, nose vertical."
Dogen's style of teaching was simplified from all abstractions, a return to our basic nature. Soto Zen is part of Dogen's legacy, a here-and-now path to enlightenment.
This is the essence of Soto Zen.
AmerikanZen
Active Member
I suppose you could travel to Japan ~ learn and study their tradition, and come back the United States.
existenz
Bewildered Seeker
I'm a SZ noob, and i agree with DreadFish that the Fukanzazengi lays it out well. But when i first read Dogen (just a few months ago) i had no idea what the heck he was saying (and still don't w/o assistance!)
Then I found a weekly Skype study group originating out of the Atlanta Soto Zen Center. We just started on Fukanzazengi a couple of weeks back. Sensei is also willing to answer questions one-on-one offline. Dogen is exceptionally profound once you get your bearings. This is a great option for those of us stuck in the Bible Belt backwaters of TX and AL. If you're interested let me know and I can connect you.
Then I found a weekly Skype study group originating out of the Atlanta Soto Zen Center. We just started on Fukanzazengi a couple of weeks back. Sensei is also willing to answer questions one-on-one offline. Dogen is exceptionally profound once you get your bearings. This is a great option for those of us stuck in the Bible Belt backwaters of TX and AL. If you're interested let me know and I can connect you.
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existenz
Bewildered Seeker
Love it. This sums up what drew me to Soto Zen.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
I'm a SZ noob, and i agree with DreadFish that the Fukanzazengi lays it out well. But when i first read Dogen (just a few months ago) i had no idea what the heck he was saying (and still don't w/o assistance!)
Then I found a weekly Skype study group originating out of the Atlanta Soto Zen Center. We just started on Fukanzazengi a couple of weeks back. Sensei is also willing to answer questions one-on-one offline. Dogen is exceptionally profound once you get your bearings. This is a great option for those of us stuck in the Bible Belt backwaters of TX and AL. If you're interested let me know and I can connect you.
I've been a Zen Buddhist for three years, and I still have trouble understanding everything that Dogen is trying to say. His teachings aren't easy to understand, and are too advanced for my mind right now.
AmerikanZen
Active Member
That's interpereter Dogen's <<works he left behind>> /since he's long been deceased./
Dogen's <(English to Japanese)> interpreter would be able to tell you that.
existenz
Bewildered Seeker
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you referring to the facts that Dogen died ~750 years ago and wrote in "medieval" Japanese? And that any interpretation into English would necessarily be problematic?
AmerikanZen
Active Member
I'm not sure why the Dogen character is so central to Zen Buddhism.
Its kinda weird in that sense.
Its kinda weird in that sense.
I blame Brad Warner. (Fondly.)
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
Why do you say that? Dogen was central in taking Soto Zen from China to Japan. He's one of the most revered figures in Zen. However, none of his teachings can compare to one's own experience.
AmerikanZen
Active Member
I'm not sure. Dogen's character was and has been mentioned alot in Zen discussions.
Isn't he deceased?....Who will now run the monastery?....
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
He died in 1235 and there are more than one zen monastery in Japan. In fact, there are multiple monasteries who practice Soto zen, there are a multiple who practice Rinzai Zen, and multiple who practice Obaku zen.
No offense, but I dont really dont understand your logic, AmerikanZen. I really don't understand where you are coming from in half of your posts.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
I have to agree. Me, DreadFish, and others have attempted to point the way of Zen, but you seem to not be able to grasp what we're telling you. You have preconceived ideas about what Zen is, and you will not let your ideas go when presented with something different. It's been explained that you cannot take a western mindset and try to understand an eastern religion, especially Zen, as it breaks free from conventional thinking, western ideas, logic, and other things that represent the way most people see the world. Maybe a Zen story is in order here to clarify my point:
AmerikanZen
Active Member
Based [hebraic word] on regular reference to -What the Buddha taught- it is that Dharma was the manifest teachings/instructions ...
I have a notion that Dharma is the universal spiritual law.
I have a notion that Dharma is the universal spiritual law.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
From a Buddhist context, dharma can be understood in two ways: one being the teachings of the Buddha, and two being physical and mental phenomena, but my feeling is that you were referring to the first way. Dharma is not an easy term to understand, and is understood in different ways by different traditions.