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Featured It's a green truck -- mismanagement of verses from the Tanakh

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by IndigoChild5559, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Any mention of the Son of God is a really good immediate indication of a Messianic prophecy. Whether hidden or obvious is another story. This one is admittedly hidden but revealed in hindsight.
     
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I used to have a bookmarked a link that showed how twelve different times the Bible says"there is no god" if one is willing to lift verses, or in this case parts of verses, out of context. I would usually use that against science deniers that quoted scientific works out of context. Quote mining is wrong, even if one does so to support a belief in the Bible.
     
  3. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It DEPENDS. two verses within a given speech will help to explain each other. And sometimes one scripture will be directly alluded to. But you can't look at the word salvation in the book of psalms and expect it to automatically mean the same thing as salvation in Paul's epistles.
     
  4. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I think the ony time "Son of God" is used in the Tanakh is in Daniels visions, and it is a reference t the People of Israel.
     
  5. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I like the expression "quote mining." I think though, that there is no outright deception going on. This foggy kind of thinking that lacks reading things in context really does have them believing these gazillion messianic prophecies exist in the Tanakh.
     
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  6. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's "Son of man" rather than "Son of God". And it refers to the "saints of the most High". However we know Jesus is at the head. Do you understand the concept of Israel being one body and having a head?

    What about Psalm 89:28 and Exodus 4:22?
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I have seen too many people accuse others of lying here, and on other forums. As you implied, lying includes an intent to deceive. If someone quote mines to support a poor interpretation of the Bible it is usually not done to deceive, there was no intent to be dishonest. People simply do not understand the errors that they make in doing so.
     
  8. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Yes, you ar4 right, it is Son of Man. I cant think of any time at all that the Tanakh uses the phrase Son of God.

    Yes, God does call Israel his first born son, and uses the same metaphor with David. I'm lost. What is the point here.
     
  9. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    When I studied the early chapters of Matthew I was mostly not impressed with the links to the Jewish Testament. They did seem to be taken out of context and stretched for the most part.
     
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  10. Notaclue

    Notaclue Member

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    Is.48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

    16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

    17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way thatthou shouldest go.

    Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

    Who do you think is talking here.

    Thanks.
     
  11. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Like you said:

    Even Christian scholars can be irrational. But the VAST majority agree with what Matthew said..
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    “Whoever does not see God everywhere does not see Him anywhere.” – Kotzker Rebbe


    or simply tat tvam asi, nuk pu nuk.


    ahea asher ahea, ahmi yat ahmi

     
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  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    There is only 1 first born. You have 2 firstborns which doesn't make sense.
     
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  14. Paula Eilene

    Paula Eilene Member

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  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, anything to say Paula? :)
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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  17. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    That's a good question and, to be frank, I wouldn't know as there isn't anything that literally explains it like Matthew does on Hosea 11:1. So it ends up being just a theological position of opinions.

    It does seem to be a pattern and certainly with Jesus having the designation makes one want to dig in deeper.
     
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    This is a no brainer here. Isaiah is speaking, for God, to Israel.What is your point?
     
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Nonsense. You can use the same metaphor more then once if you are writing more than one text. The Bible is a collection of multiple texts with multiple authors, some of them speaking for God, others not.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Oh, my questions were really rhetorical.
    I know that much of what applies to the physical nation of Israel, applies also to spiritual Israel. It is no accident that what the apostles referred to from the Hebrew scriptures, applied to the kingdom of kings and priest, namely Christ - primarily, and his anointed brothers.
    Luke 24:27 And starting with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.
    Both the Hebrew and Greek scriptures contain one primary message.

    People of the nations will not grasp this, so it is understandable that some would say that the writers of the Greek scriptures borrowed texts from the Hebrew scriptures in order to make it appear as though they are in harmony.
    They made similar claims about the book of Daniel, saying that it was written after the events, in order to make it seem that they were prophecy.

    Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it, they would not have executed the glorious Lord. But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:6-10

    These attacks always fail.
     
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