It is important to convince others (religion/politics).

[an anarchist]

"Live and let live" is the mantra I see often on this site. It's nice, and perhaps indeed neccesary for a forum to have pleasant and enjoyable discourse on the topics of religion and politics.

A Christian who believes in eternal damnation for non-Christians will go door to door begging others to accept Jesus. I done that, I've been there. If the Christians are right about damnation, then well bless them for trying to save us. How can we ask a Christian to not try to save us? I think Christians should be open to discourse on their beliefs and religion, and that's where we can counter as non-Christians and try to help them free from their toxic and frightening perspective that results from Biblical literalism. Help goes both ways. But to the Christian, it's like asking them to let us jump into an empty pool we think is full.

Though I am not a Christian anymore, I believe myself to hold the same mindset that they do in some regards. The importance of fixing everyone else's wrong beliefs. Though, Christians do it for selfless reasons. They want to save others. For me, it's because everyone else is screwing up the world around me and has turned it into a literal dystopia. I believe we all share the same fate, ultimately and eternally. Either humanity, as a collective, will suffer for all eternity in the afterlife, or we will not suffer. But we are one, our fates are intertwined and the same. I believe us humans have a role in directing the trajectory of our fate, for better or worse.

So, selfishly and perhaps selflessly, I must convince the world and future generations of my (supposed) truths. Because y'all are gonna screw me (and everyone) over for a literal eternity.

It is important for me to convince others of my truth. I do my best to abide by the rules, and well I don't proselytize I think. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I just engage in discourse, mostly for my own good. Though I share the mindset of a stereotypical Christian that I must not "live and let live", I do not share the mindset that I am for sure right. I am eager to find the flaws in my beliefs and learn from others. Though, you may not believe me, I point to my views when I joined this site. I was a literalist Christian, but the discourse here helped me change that.

Just making this thread I guess in defense of proselytizing. Just, if you proselytize, you have to be correct in what you are preaching. Luckily, I will eventually have correct beliefs. I understand the mindset, it is perhaps coupled with Pascal's Wager.

I am quite sure about anarchism, but I could be convinced otherwise believe it or not... It is just my most confident belief, and I think a neccesary component in the elimination of suffering. So I post about it, for my own intellectual growth, to find flaws in my reasonings, and to get practice in discourse where I convince others they are wrong.

Live and let live? Nah... What do you think?

Anyways I'm off to work talk to y'all later!

 

[Spice]

An interesting OP.

Earlier I was reading the thread discussing Spinoza and found much of it fascinating. (I really should read more about him.) To accept things as they are without stress and chaos, to work towards something similar to Stoicism, first appears as being irresponsible and selfish in this world of chaos. But this world is also one of a natural dual nature. To effect change you must face it with opposing action. To eliminate chaos, meet it with calm. To counter violence, live in peace. To quiet the noise, stay silent. The results don't come quickly, but they do come strongly.

This is the evolutionary plan to reverse what most Christians refer to as the Fall. It seems hopeless if you look at today's news broadcasts, but think back, or study the past, and you'll see we have made great strides, though a long, long way to go. I've discovered it is much more productive and fulfilling to guide and direct through example, compassion, and patience. That doesn't mean it's always easy!

 

[Quintessence]

There are really only two instances where I have little difficulty understanding the value of destroying others:

• Where destruction of others is required to sustain vital needs (e.g., humans must kill to sustain metabolic functioning)
• Where others present an immediate and present danger to one's vital needs (e.g., one is being violently attacked by others)

Annihilation and destruction of others is both inevitable and necessary. Annihilation and destruction of others for peripheral needs and "just because" however, is not. Animism operates on a foundation of reciprocity - it understands taking is necessary, and aims to give back in return while not taking more than is needed. This mindset is part of why indigenous religions do not proselytize. They are not in the business of conquest and control, greed and avarice. They are, as it is said, live and let live.

Those who are unable to live and let live make frequent enemies and bring unto themselves needless strife and conflict.

 

[Nakosis]

"Live and let live" is the mantra I see often on this site. It's nice, and perhaps indeed neccesary for a forum to have pleasant and enjoyable discourse on the topics of religion and politics.

A Christian who believes in eternal damnation for non-Christians will go door to door begging others to accept Jesus. I done that, I've been there. If the Christians are right about damnation, then well bless them for trying to save us. How can we ask a Christian to not try to save us? I think Christians should be open to discourse on their beliefs and religion, and that's where we can counter as non-Christians and try to help them free from their toxic and frightening perspective that results from Biblical literalism. Help goes both ways. But to the Christian, it's like asking them to let us jump into an empty pool we think is full.

Though I am not a Christian anymore, I believe myself to hold the same mindset that they do in some regards. The importance of fixing everyone else's wrong beliefs. Though, Christians do it for selfless reasons. They want to save others. For me, it's because everyone else is screwing up the world around me and has turned it into a literal dystopia. I believe we all share the same fate, ultimately and eternally. Either humanity, as a collective, will suffer for all eternity in the afterlife, or we will not suffer. But we are one, our fates are intertwined and the same. I believe us humans have a role in directing the trajectory of our fate, for better or worse.

So, selfishly and perhaps selflessly, I must convince the world and future generations of my (supposed) truths. Because y'all are gonna screw me (and everyone) over for a literal eternity.

It is important for me to convince others of my truth. I do my best to abide by the rules, and well I don't proselytize I think. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I just engage in discourse, mostly for my own good. Though I share the mindset of a stereotypical Christian that I must not "live and let live", I do not share the mindset that I am for sure right. I am eager to find the flaws in my beliefs and learn from others. Though, you may not believe me, I point to my views when I joined this site. I was a literalist Christian, but the discourse here helped me change that.

Just making this thread I guess in defense of proselytizing. Just, if you proselytize, you have to be correct in what you are preaching. Luckily, I will eventually have correct beliefs. I understand the mindset, it is perhaps coupled with Pascal's Wager.

I am quite sure about anarchism, but I could be convinced otherwise believe it or not... It is just my most confident belief, and I think a neccesary component in the elimination of suffering. So I post about it, for my own intellectual growth, to find flaws in my reasonings, and to get practice in discourse where I convince others they are wrong.

Live and let live? Nah... What do you think?

Anyways I'm off to work talk to y'all later!

Not my job to save the world. Doubt I could if I wanted to. Everyone has issues and problems and motivations that I will never understand. So how could I know how to fix them.

Sure, I thought the same as you at one time. Thought that just by talking to people, I could get them to see how life could be much better for them. I found it doesn't really work that way. Truthfully I have enough of my own issues if I'm being honest with my self.

So I really think the best thing to do is focus on fixing myself. Become the better self. Then maybe, others will see how I've been able to improve and perhaps be inspired to improve themselves.

You can be inspired to seek a better life by others but, the will to actually to take the steps to become a better person has to come from inside. You can do nothing until they are willing.

 

[Madsaac]

It is when religion gets in the way of good politics. How can you 'live and let live' some of the bullsh*t that comes out some religions and the negative effect it can have on people.

We can only chip away, little by little, it may be working but you are always going to have the nutjob who is not religious but it's somewhere to start.

Other then that, people can believe what they want...as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Live and let live

 

[Callisto]

I think the adage you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped is true more often than not. Even if proselytizing was correct, it doesn't do any real good/achieve its goal. Converts are people who, on some level, are receptive. If a person is not receptive, there's little to nothing the proselytizer can do, and is more likely to make the individual more resistant due to their efforts.

 

[1213]

Live and let live? Nah... What do you think?

It sounds almost that you are asking me to think, live and let die. But, I think it is good, if people care, even if it means they promote ideas that are not necessary the best. I hope everyone would by that way eventually learn what is good.

 

[Tamino]

So, selfishly and perhaps selflessly, I must convince the world and future generations of my (supposed) truths. Because y'all are gonna screw me (and everyone) over for a literal eternity.

In Religion? Nope. I leave it up to the Gods to decide who they want as a follower, and I don't interfere with other people's relationship with the divine (or lack thereof). I like to talk about it, engage in theoretical debates and see other's ideas -hence my presence on this forum - but in the end I'd leave the decision of which or any religion to follow up to the individual and the Gods. Not my circus, not my monkeys (I recently learned that English phrase, and I love it)

In politics, however? Hell, yes, I try to convince others! I'm a party member because I think that our ideas are better - for both humans and the environment - than other parties' platforms.
So I try to convince people to vote for us, and I try to convince the other council members to vote for my ideas. (Well, mostly I try to remind them that their ideas are short-sighted and biased, because we don't have the necessary majorities to get our own ideas passed...)

However, I respect democracy and other people's agency, even if they're being stupid from my point of view. So I will respect a majority decision even if I don't like it. And I don't hate people if they don't share my political opinion. Some of them are pretty decent, actually. We mostly differ in where we put our priorities, not so much in the overall principles.
I pity them if they are misguided right-wing populists, and I hate that they are threatening our democracy and harming people with their racism and bigotry ... but I can't really hate them for it. They are mostly driven by fear or blinded by pride, and I am not free of the same emotions myself.

It is important for me to convince others of my truth. I do my best to abide by the rules,

So, the rules are more important than your truth? Why? Is that pragmatism (don't want to get banned) or something more fundamental?

 

[an anarchist]

So, the rules are more important than your truth?

I meant the rules here on religious forums hee hee. If I break em, well, I won't be around to spread much of anything well will I?

 

[an anarchist]

I think the adage you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped is true more often than not. Even if proselytizing was correct, it doesn't do any real good/achieve its goal. Converts are people who, on some level, are receptive. If a person is not receptive, there's little to nothing the proselytizer can do, and is more likely to make the individual more resistant due to their efforts.

Just have to get creative with the proselytizing...

 

[bobhikes]

"Live and let live" is the mantra I see often on this site. It's nice, and perhaps indeed neccesary for a forum to have pleasant and enjoyable discourse on the topics of religion and politics.

A Christian who believes in eternal damnation for non-Christians will go door to door begging others to accept Jesus. I done that, I've been there. If the Christians are right about damnation, then well bless them for trying to save us. How can we ask a Christian to not try to save us? I think Christians should be open to discourse on their beliefs and religion, and that's where we can counter as non-Christians and try to help them free from their toxic and frightening perspective that results from Biblical literalism. Help goes both ways. But to the Christian, it's like asking them to let us jump into an empty pool we think is full.

Though I am not a Christian anymore, I believe myself to hold the same mindset that they do in some regards. The importance of fixing everyone else's wrong beliefs. Though, Christians do it for selfless reasons. They want to save others. For me, it's because everyone else is screwing up the world around me and has turned it into a literal dystopia. I believe we all share the same fate, ultimately and eternally. Either humanity, as a collective, will suffer for all eternity in the afterlife, or we will not suffer. But we are one, our fates are intertwined and the same. I believe us humans have a role in directing the trajectory of our fate, for better or worse.

So, selfishly and perhaps selflessly, I must convince the world and future generations of my (supposed) truths. Because y'all are gonna screw me (and everyone) over for a literal eternity.

It is important for me to convince others of my truth. I do my best to abide by the rules, and well I don't proselytize I think. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I just engage in discourse, mostly for my own good. Though I share the mindset of a stereotypical Christian that I must not "live and let live", I do not share the mindset that I am for sure right. I am eager to find the flaws in my beliefs and learn from others. Though, you may not believe me, I point to my views when I joined this site. I was a literalist Christian, but the discourse here helped me change that.

Just making this thread I guess in defense of proselytizing. Just, if you proselytize, you have to be correct in what you are preaching. Luckily, I will eventually have correct beliefs. I understand the mindset, it is perhaps coupled with Pascal's Wager.

I am quite sure about anarchism, but I could be convinced otherwise believe it or not... It is just my most confident belief, and I think a neccesary component in the elimination of suffering. So I post about it, for my own intellectual growth, to find flaws in my reasonings, and to get practice in discourse where I convince others they are wrong.

Live and let live? Nah... What do you think?

Anyways I'm off to work talk to y'all later!

We each are unique individuals all our learning is self-based or human based so no matter how much we believe we do not have all the answers. Proselytizing is fine to some one that is willing to listen but a violation to the person that does not want to be bothered. In a debate its a free for all, in public breech the subject and determine the willingness. If told to stop, stop, if they have signs up banning it do not approach. No matter how firmly you believe you are right, you only have human knowledge.