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"It Doesn't Happen!" (e.g. trans women wrecking women's sports)

Kfox

Well-Known Member
There's a big difference between a word like "cis" which is a newer word with little baggage used for clarification purposes and the n-word which has a very long and steeped history. Totally different roots and totally different intentions
Of course; everything’s different. My point is when people you take issue with direct a name at you, it’s natural to expect push back.
My point this whole time is that times and language are changing, and many people such as myself are using words that I guess you find offensive, but if things continue as they are right now then that will just be the way English evolves. What then? Will you eventually stop being offended and just accept the word's usage or is it just so offensive to you that you would just continue to feel the way you do now?
I guess only time will tell; but there are lots of words I find offensive that has been deemed socially acceptable; E.G. People of color (due to its racist roots) Black people use of the U-word, etc. but I suspect this change is due to effort by activists and is a little more than just a natural evolution of language.
Is the word "cis" really on the same level as the n-word? Is it THAT offensive?
No. But then; It doesn’t have to be.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
The difference is, when digital watches came out, there was not a significant percentage of the population claiming they were not real watches.

I was giving an example of how there can be no need for a qualifying word/s (watch, woman) and then it becomes necessary as something new emerges (digital watch, trans woman). The analogy is not total of course.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
I was giving an example of how there can be no need for a qualifying word/s (watch, woman) and then it becomes necessary as something new emerges (digital watch, trans woman). The analogy is not total of course.
I was only pointing out why there is push back from one but not the other.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Why on Earth would we want to do that?
Why would we want to level the field by introducing new types of physical class for athletes, such as those described by the poster I was responding to? Such as muscle mass ratios and other ways of grading classes of sporting events. As is already the case in sports like boxing.

Then that way, the classes of female and male, could be rendered obsolete, as we adopt a different fairer more objective quantified system of categorization. That's why.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Why would we want to level the field by introducing new types of physical class for athletes, such as those described by the poster I was responding to?
Nobody wants to see a physical slob who is out of shape play sports, they want to see the best which requires the person who gets in the best physical shape when competing
Such as muscle mass ratios and other ways of grading classes of sporting events. As is already the case in sports like boxing.
Boxing is divided in weight classes not muscle mass ratios.
Then that way, the classes of female and male, could be rendered obsolete, as we adopt a different fairer more objective quantified system of categorization. That's why.
No; a man who is the same size of a woman will still have greater bone density, larger lung capacity, more stamina, quicker, IOW will still be a better athlete.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Nobody wants to see a physical slob who is out of shape play sports, they want to see the best which requires the person who gets in the best physical shape when competing

Boxing is divided in weight classes not muscle mass ratios.

No; a man who is the same size of a woman will still have greater bone density, larger lung capacity, more stamina, quicker, IOW will still be a better athlete.
Boxing is divided into classes. That is what matters, based on physical difference, mass.
Then we make classes based on lung capacity and muscle ratio etc..

Ok?
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Boxing is divided into classes. That is what matters, based on physical difference, mass.
Then we make classes based on lung capacity and muscle ratio etc..

Ok?
Nobody is gonna pay a lot of money to see 2 out of shape guys who has never trained before compete against each other; they wanna see the best. That's why women's sports are often a financial failure and have to be supported by the men's division; because they are not the best.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Nobody is gonna pay a lot of money to see 2 out of shape guys who has never trained before compete against each other; they wanna see the best. That's why women's sports are often a financial failure and have to be supported by the men's division; because they are not the best.
Personally, I don't follow any sports. So I guess I am biased in that I don't care. However I am sure sport is more than just about winning or losing and money. Maybe people are doing it for the wrong reasons?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Really? What else is professional sports about then?

It's about a lot more than winning or losing money. For some people that's the main motivation, but not for most people.

Sports and art and theater and so on, can engage our neurology in very positive ways. Of course these things can be destructive, but they are often positive. It's not clear to me that watching violent sports is healthy - that's a complex question. But watching skilled performers executing non-violent sports is a big win for healthy neuro-systems :)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I've voiced concerns about trans women competing against women in sports. Seems bad on many counts.

But "I've been told" many times on this forum variations on "it's not happening" and/or "you're being an alarmist" or "a conspiracy theorist" and so on.

Women tying to compete in Jiu-Jitsu might disagree with your assessments..

EXCLUSIVE: Women Abandon Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament After Being Forced To Fight Males - Reduxx
Maybe a solution should be going by weight and not which genitals one has such as we see in wrestling and boxing.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
It's about a lot more than winning or losing money. For some people that's the main motivation, but not for most people.

Sports and art and theater and so on, can engage our neurology in very positive ways. Of course these things can be destructive, but they are often positive. It's not clear to me that watching violent sports is healthy - that's a complex question. But watching skilled performers executing non-violent sports is a big win for healthy neuro-systems :)
It can be many of those things, but when it comes to professional sports, winning and money seems to be the most important.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Maybe a solution should be going by weight and not which genitals one has such as we see in wrestling and boxing.
Because that would spell the end of women in professional sports because women would not stand a chance against men. BTW wrestling and boxing is separated by gender
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Unless the context requires it,
I just call'm "women".
Not that I do it on purpose or anything, but thinking about it, I seem to only call those transwomen "women" when they succesfully fooled me.
Most times though, it's quite clear that they aren't biological women (regardless how far along the transition is) and then I'll automatically refer to them as transwomen.

And again, not that I do it on purpose...
That's how it comes out without thinking about it.
 
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