"It Doesn't Happen!" (e.g. trans women wrecking women's sports)

[wellwisher]

I've voiced concerns about trans women competing against women in sports. Seems bad on many counts.

But "I've been told" many times on this forum variations on "it's not happening" and/or "you're being an alarmist" or "a conspiracy theorist" and so on.

Women tying to compete in Jiu-Jitsu might disagree with your assessments..

EXCLUSIVE: Women Abandon Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament After Being Forced To Fight Males - Reduxx

In the early days of modern women's liberation; 1970's, women's liberation was sold with the premise that women can do anything men could do; men and women were equal. Therefore, if women were not represented, in any aspect of a man's world, it was not due to differences between men and women, but because men were chauvinists pigs. Caveman was the only difference. This war cry allowed women to infiltrate all aspects of the male world, by law, that had been set up, organically, due to genetic differences; male pro sports.

Things have come full circle 50 years later, and now women understand that the original logic of men and women being different in basic genetic ways, was valid and that the mischaracterization of men and woman, was misinformation by the Left. It messed up culture and brought us to this point. Women attract men with visual images; surface. Culture became shallow and superficial; YouTube.

The transgender issue has brought us back to male and female DNA, and how the operating systems of the brain and body, differ, due to two different full chromosomes of genes, and not just a few genes. The difference makes men and women like two gears, with opposite spin, that can mesh and create the leverage of a team. The team is more than the sum of its parts.

What would be a good modern social experiment is for men to once again become men and women become women based on maximizing your X or Y chromosome. The last time this was the case, it was called the golden generation.

 

[Little Dragon]

What would be a good modern social experiment is for men to once again become men and women become women based on maximizing your X or Y chromosome. The last time this was the case, it was called the golden generation.

I think we should just let people be what they want to be, nothing can remain the same whilst technology and science advances. A stiff reed breaks in the wind.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What would be a good modern social experiment is for men to once again become men and women become women based on maximizing your X or Y chromosome. The last time this was the case, it was called the golden generation.

I think it's more important for individuals to maximize their own potential. In this way, everyone is equal in their "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness."

 

[icehorse]

I think it's more important for individuals to maximize their own potential. In this way, everyone is equal in their "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness."

I think we should just let people be what they want to be, nothing can remain the same whilst technology and science advances. A stiff reed breaks in the wind.

Nice sentiments, but not helpful for female athletes competing against biological males

 

[wellwisher]

I think we should just let people be what they want to be, nothing can remain the same whilst technology and science advances. A stiff reed breaks in the wind.

According to evolution and biology, the DNA is very slow to change. You need to go pretty far back in time to find a missing link to humans that is not human; Neanderthals. Male and female sexes go back even farther; 100's of millions of years. The male and female distinction is a still part of most animals and plants; natural bookend. The DNA in general, and X and Y chromosomes in particular, are not reeds that can bend in the wind. Gender is the reed that can bend in the wind. it is not a sturdy platform since it needs too much propping.

The male and female DNA, is more like an oak tree with roots deep into the earth's history. In this case, optimization of a human life, to the earth, is made easier if we are true to our natural DNA self, instead of being true to collective insecurities, such as the indoctrination pressures from educators and the medical community, who see a cash cow. Fads and priorities can change and such reeds can break.

Science has been monitoring the range of human sexuality since at least the 1970's; after the late 1960's sexual revolution. What they found is the number of people claiming to be cross gender has increased from 1% to 4% of the population, from then to today. The DNA moves slow like a glacier, so this cannot be explained by genetics. It is more a reed affect created by cultural fad indoctrination.

I think it's more important for individuals to maximize their own potential. In this way, everyone is equal in their "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness."

Equality does not mean equal outcome. Rather equality is about equal opportunity to try. If you wanted to buy a house and can follow the rules; down payment and an income, equality would mean you have the same opportunity to own a home as everyone else. Not everyone will finish that 30 year race. Equality mean we can all start any race of culture. Our individual efforts and our talents will determine, where we finish in the race of life. But we all have a fair opportunity to begin any race we choose, with the joy of any journey, not the finish, but the journey itself. Just being on a team at a low level can still be fun; excitement and friendships

When some people cheat, this makes separate rules, that prevents equal opportunity In the case of female sports, males becoming a superficial woman, will still have male DNA to use in the sports. Male and female DNA, each having unique areas where they have an advantage. In sports, male DNA gives the males more physical advantages, which is why men developed physical sports; equals, speed, strength, stamina and fighting. Women developed finesse rules for similar sports, with there rules based on their DNA advantages. We cannot legislate DNA, so equal opportunity in sports requires men and woman have two paths.

 

[Soandso]

"Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage over cis women."

There is that word again that many claim is hardly ever used.

Saying 'trans women' and 'women' already seperate the two

Why not just say...

"Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage over 'women"

Because living languages evolve over time as the relevancy of concepts conveyed change. That's just the way things go, and always have gone

To be fair, it does reduce confusion when speaking on gender and LGBT centered issues

 

[icehorse]

Because living languages evolve over time as the relevancy of concepts conveyed change. That's just the way things go, and always have gone

To be fair, it does reduce confusion when speaking on gender and LGBT centered issues

There is natural evolution of language, no doubt.

But trans activists are attempting a forcible control over language in a very Orwellian, 1984, doublethink sort of way.

 

[Kfox]

To be fair, it does reduce confusion when speaking on gender and LGBT centered issues

How?

 

[Soandso]

There is natural evolution of language, no doubt.

But trans activists are attempting a forcible control over language in a very Orwellian, 1984, doublethink sort of way.

Ok. So you say

"Cis woman" "biological woman" six to one, half a dozen the other. All I care about is ease of use and clarity, and "cis" does that when speaking about subjects that require clarity when the subject is about trans and cis people. That's why I prefer using the word. I suspect others who use it might agree. I think that's far more likely than conspiracies that "trans activists" are forcing control over the words we use

In reality, the propagation of words that people use happens because they like using the words. If it falls out of fashion, they stop using them. There's a reason people still use "cool" instead of "that's radical" Or "totally tubular, brosky." Things that are simple and cut straight to the point tend to get use. Who knows, though? Maybe 20 years from now it'll be cringey to still say "cis?"

 

[Soandso]

How?

Well, because trans people and cis people exist. If I'm speaking on topics where we need to isolate them as people groups and speak about them in the same context, such as in topics involving sports, differentiating people using labels such as "cis" or "trans" avoids confusion when we are talking about what categories people belong to

Now, ones mileage may vary. Older folks don't use "cis" oftentimes, so I have to use "biological" with them for clarity's sake. For instance, I have a friend who has very masculine features, but she's a cis woman. I used to work with her, and people at work would sometimes ask me if she was trans. If they were younger, I'd just tell em she's cis. For older coworkers, though, I'd have to tell them she's "biologically female" or "biologically a woman." Not a fan

 

[Heyo]

Male and female sexes go back even farther; 100's of millions of years. The male and female distinction is a still part of most animals and plants; natural bookend. The DNA in general, and X and Y chromosomes in particular, are not reeds that can bend in the wind. Gender is the reed that can bend in the wind.

Your appeal to nature fails utterly as there are species which have more than two sexes (Why This Fungus Has Over 20,000 Sexes) and sex change is normal in others (Sex Change in Clownfish: Molecular Insights from Transcriptome Analysis - Scientific Reports).

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Equality does not mean equal outcome. Rather equality is about equal opportunity to try. If you wanted to buy a house and can follow the rules; down payment and an income, equality would mean you have the same opportunity to own a home as everyone else. Not everyone will finish that 30 year race. Equality mean we can all start any race of culture. Our individual efforts and our talents will determine, where we finish in the race of life. But we all have a fair opportunity to begin any race we choose, with the joy of any journey, not the finish, but the journey itself. Just being on a team at a low level can still be fun; excitement and friendships

Of course, the rules of the game have to be fair. Equality doesn't allow giving others a head start. How does this support your idea of having separate gender roles again?

 

[Kfox]

Well, because trans people and cis people exist. If I'm speaking on topics where we need to isolate them as people groups and speak about them in the same context, such as in topics involving sports, differentiating people using labels such as "cis" or "trans" avoids confusion when we are talking about what categories people belong to

And how is this easier than referring to biological females as "women" and biological males as transwomen?

 

[Soandso]

And how is this easier than referring to biological females as "women" and biological males as transwomen?

Because in actual practice I've noticed that when someone just says "woman" or "man" only when talking about more complex issues regarding both trans and cis folks is sometimes met with confusion along with the follow up line of "wait, are we talking about this person or that person?" It just makes things easier and more clear to say "cis" and "trans," imo. Less needless ambiguity, and less times I've had to repeat myself in practical conversation

 

[Little Dragon]

instead of being true to collective insecurities, such as the indoctrination pressures from educators and the medical community, who see a cash cow

No amount of peer pressure is going to make me change gender.

 

[Little Dragon]

But trans activists are attempting a forcible control over language in a very Orwellian, 1984, doublethink sort of way.

Not really, to be Orwellian, they would have to be in power, in control, in government. Then you could argue that they are socially engineering the population or attempting to do so. Double think is the situation in which one holds two mutually contradictory and irreconcilable ideas. Not sure how that label is applicable here.

 

[Kfox]

Because in actual practice I've noticed that when someone just says "woman" or "man" only when talking about more complex issues regarding both trans and cis folks is sometimes met with confusion along with the follow up line of "wait, are we talking about this person or that person?" It just makes things easier and more clear to say "cis" and "trans," imo. Less needless ambiguity, and less times I've had to repeat myself in practical conversation

If woman = biological female (like it used to) and trans woman = biological male that identifies as woman, there would be no confusion.

 

[Soandso]

If woman = biological female (like it used to) and trans woman = biological male that identifies as woman, there would be no confusion.

Seems to be an inadequate use of language if in practice it tends to cause confusion in this day and age. I prefer to cut straight to the point with no room for ambiguity when the situation arises. Cis/biological man/woman and trans man/woman seems to work better from a practical standpoint, imo

If woman = biological female (like it used to)

I find it interesting that many folks who are upset at the way language changes to incorporate different concepts focus on gender

Remember when persnickety people used to get upset when folks would say ain't? "Ain't ain't a word so you better not say ain't" was what my 5th grade teacher would tell us kids when he heard us saying ain't in regular conversation. It wasn't proper english. Now it's in the Oxford dictionary. I wonder if he still cares about it now as much as he used to since it is finally proper english or if he finally accepted it and just moved on?

 

[Revoltingest]

If woman = biological female (like it used to) and trans woman = biological male that identifies as woman, there would be no confusion.

Except for a fully transitioned trans woman
who has all the brain, plumbing & hormones
of a woman. To refer to her as a "biological
male that identifies as woman" is absurd
& abusive because it is not merely to identify.

 

[Little Dragon]

I find it interesting that many folks who are upset at the way language changes to incorporate different concepts focus on gender

Indeed, why do they focus on gender and sexuality so much, these people that rail against any deviation from their parochial and subjective worldviews?

Could they be sexually repressed authoritarians, projecting their fears and insecurities and of course, self loathing, onto others?
I judge that some must be.

What other rationale could there be?
For opposing trans and gay rights?