dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Thanks, I'll check it out.
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Israel-Gaza : Air strike kills World Central Kitchen heroes
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
Thanks, I'll check it out.
LadyJane
Member
This is not two armies on a battlefield. Starving children in Gaza are not terrorists. The deliberate crimes against humanity are being committed so that one man and his reckless regime can remain in power. That is the indifference.
There is no excuse for this. A military that brags about the precision of its targets and unwavering American support that sees "no daylight" between the relationship is counter to democracy. That is on the line.
Thankfully the majority of citizens are expressing their dissent. Israeli citizens have been calling for change. And finally (finally) we see some wavering. Finally...we are seeing some daylight.
There is no excuse for this. A military that brags about the precision of its targets and unwavering American support that sees "no daylight" between the relationship is counter to democracy. That is on the line.
Thankfully the majority of citizens are expressing their dissent. Israeli citizens have been calling for change. And finally (finally) we see some wavering. Finally...we are seeing some daylight.
I think you're being to generous towards Israel.
It's not just about him staying in power. It appears
to be an agenda to eliminate Palestinians from Gaza,
either by starvation, bombing, or "voluntary emigration".
It's genocide.
Israel's claims of "precision" are dubious.
It's government has openly said that it prioritizes
destruction over precision. Yet the bombing of
WCK vehicles shows that this useful "accident"
was the result of precision.
I'm not hearing calls for justice for Palestinians though.
Sure, they dislike their leader, but that doesn't mean
most have any problem with genocide.
Israeli protesters are calling for democracy. But what about the occupation of Palestinians?
Israel is being rocked by a wave of mass protests calling for the country’s democracy to be upheld. But the pro-democracy movement lacks any clear message of opposition to Israel’s open-ended military rule over millions of Palestinians.
Sadly, there is a marked difference between opposition to Netanyahu (and the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir) and an Israeli peace movement. The latter remains frail.
LadyJane
Member
The indifference to human life on display is that of Netanyahoo and the soldiers recruited to commit atrocities with impunity. Israeli citizens who stand against it must use their voices to insist that aid gets to those innocent people of Gaza.
I don't blame them in the same way I don't blame American citizens for the terrorist actions of their military. I expect the same of them and their voices. This is an all hands on deck moment. Enough is Enough.
The genocide of Palestinian people has been going on for nearly two decades. Why else would they have elected a terrorist organization all those years ago? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Man vs. Man. Man vs. Nature. Spy vs. Spy. Terrorist vs. Terrorist. Pick yer Poison.
I don't blame them in the same way I don't blame American citizens for the terrorist actions of their military. I expect the same of them and their voices. This is an all hands on deck moment. Enough is Enough.
The genocide of Palestinian people has been going on for nearly two decades. Why else would they have elected a terrorist organization all those years ago? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Man vs. Man. Man vs. Nature. Spy vs. Spy. Terrorist vs. Terrorist. Pick yer Poison.
libre
Skylark
That's a remarkably flexible definition of genocide you have there.
I really object to the misuse of the word "genocide" which trivializes the deliberate and systematic murder of millions of people. What it says to me is that the death/murder of 100000 Jews is equivalent to one Palestinian (or a ratio like that).
That is not the definition of genocide and you know it
So do I. However, according to the 1948 UN definition
Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians.
Denial of this is to enable this.
Your President & Congress you voted for enable this.
As for kill ratios, Israel is far far far ahead of Hamas.
His view appears to be that the Holocaust is the only
true genocide. And it ignores that Jews weren't the
only groups targeted.
His numbers are based upon Israel's propaganda,
denying the number dead & dying, now due mostly
to starvation.
It's odd how many here will tout their good Christian
beliefs, yet support genocide.
Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Origin of the Term Genocide
The word “genocide” did not exist prior to 1944. It is a very specific term coined by a Polish-Jewish lawyer named Raphael Lemkin (1900–1959) who sought to describe Nazi policies of systematic murder during the Holocaust, including the destruction of European Jews. He formed the word genocide by combining geno-, from the Greek word for race or tribe, with -cide, from the Latin word for killing.What is Genocide? - United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Genocide as a term did not exist before 1944. Learn about its origins and legal definition.
www.ushmm.org
Determining which is more ignorant, the claim or the question, is a bit of a challenge.
That said:
- No, genocide has not been going on for nearly two decades.
- In general, the people of Gaza elected Hamas because Hamas focused on improving social services while the PA was widely viewed as corrupt.
libre
Skylark
LadyJane
Member
Where is the disconnect? The words genocide and apartheid?
This conflict has gone on for decades. And given the chance each would wipe the other off the face of the Earth. The escalation leaves innocent civilians left to suffer needlessly.
I just think one side is far outgunned. Beyond the pale.
This conflict has gone on for decades. And given the chance each would wipe the other off the face of the Earth. The escalation leaves innocent civilians left to suffer needlessly.
I just think one side is far outgunned. Beyond the pale.
libre
Skylark
Nobody is arguing that genocide is a uniquely german phenomena
and you know as much
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I am sorry, but this attitude to what qualifies as genocide is wrongheaded and bordering on genocide denial.
By your own logic, the Rwandan genocide should not be called a genocide, because it's death toll was also much smaller to the holocaust. Similarly, the Cambodian genocide. Or literally ALMOST ANY OTHER HISTORICALLY RECOGNISED GENOCIDE:
List of genocides - Wikipedia
For reference, here is a list of historically recognised genocides that have a death toll lower than the recent bombings of Gaza (much less the whole of the Palestine/Israel conflict):
Rohingya genocide - Wikipedia
Iraqi Turkmen genocide - Wikipedia
Yazidi genocide - Wikipedia
Gukurahundi - Wikipedia
Massacre of Arabs during the Zanzibar Revolution - Wikipedia
Parsley massacre - Wikipedia
Osage Indian murders - Wikipedia
Selk'nam genocide - Wikipedia
California genocide - Wikipedia
Australian frontier wars - Wikipedia
Moriori genocide - Wikipedia
Massacre of Salsipuedes - Wikipedia
Black War - Wikipedia
1804 Haitian massacre - Wikipedia
By your reasoning, none of these could ever even remotely be considered "genocide" because their death tolls don't match the recent events in Gaza, let alone the holocaust.
Or, hell, why not instead set the standard for calling something "genocide" at the Belgian occupation of the Congo, which resulted in potentially more deaths than the holocaust?
"I really object to the misuse of the word "genocide" which trivializes the deliberate and systemic murder of millions of people. What it says to me is that the death/murder of 2 Congolese people is equivalent to one Jew (or a ratio like that)."
Do you not understand how bad that logic is?
Whether or not something counts as genocide isn't as simple as death toll, it's about the intent and execution. To essentially argue to de-legitimise every genocide other than the holocaust is no different, in my mind, to engaging in a form of historical revisionism tantamount to genocide denial. It is literally claiming that every other genocide doesn't count, because this one specific genocide was an obviously very bad one. I don't accept this logic, and I find it explicitly dismissive to all other genocides throughout history.
What you have to do is demonstrate that the intent and execution of these events is not to ethnically eradicate or displace a group of people. It's not enough to simply point at death tolls and say "See! This number doesn't even closely match THE HOLOCAUST, so we can't use that word to describe it!". That's just an evasion, because it isn't dealing with the INTENT AND EXECUTION that leads people to argue that it counts as genocide. It's just diversionary one-up-manship, and a blatant weaponizing of Jewish history to silence what may be legitimate criticisms of the Israeli state, and may also be an accurate accusation as to the consequences of their actions.
Try harder.
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I just heard on NPR that Israel bombed those 3 vehicles
because they saw a suspected terrorist standing near one.
And they mistook a backpack for a rifle. And Israel
claims to have not informed soldiers of WCK's stated
movements.
Those responsible aren't to be prosecuted. But they will
be disciplined.
Even if it were an "accident", this excuse would speak to
how careless & callous Israel is in identifying the enemy,
killing everyone possibly connected with the suspected
enemy, & maiming/killing any civilians with the misfortune
of being in the vicinity.
And this "accident" happened with 3 separate vehicles?
With Israel's claimed precision....that just happened to
be absent in the chain of command?
because they saw a suspected terrorist standing near one.
And they mistook a backpack for a rifle. And Israel
claims to have not informed soldiers of WCK's stated
movements.
Those responsible aren't to be prosecuted. But they will
be disciplined.
Even if it were an "accident", this excuse would speak to
how careless & callous Israel is in identifying the enemy,
killing everyone possibly connected with the suspected
enemy, & maiming/killing any civilians with the misfortune
of being in the vicinity.
And this "accident" happened with 3 separate vehicles?
With Israel's claimed precision....that just happened to
be absent in the chain of command?
libre
Skylark
IMO, throwing around accusations of 'genocide denial' to those who are condemning Israel's massacres but have disagreements about what constitutes a genocide is shortsighted and nonproductive.
There is a massive difference between minimizing the scale and severity of a set of massacres and whether or not it meets the criteria of genocide in law. The latter is an acceptable area of discussion and I think outrage-tinted sensationalism serves to obfuscate the difference between the two.