Islam rejects meritocracies?

[The_Fisher_King]

Those two statements are anything but established truths.

They are articles of faith that each person must feel free to accept or reject however they please.

If anything, I feel sorry that so many people (mostly but not always Muslims) seem to feel so bothered by the simple, unimportant fact that not everyone is meant to be a believer in God nor in the Quran. Such a situation often puts us in a difficult situation, having to choose between lying to people or hurting their feelings.

Not everyone can or should be assumed monotheistic or converted into one.

These are of course my strongly-held beliefs. And it is of course possible that I am wrong. I don't believe that I should force you to accept them. I certainly believe that it is my duty to try to guide you (and all other people) to them, and indeed you are doing something similar: trying to correct what you feel to be my misperceptions. And of course it does bother me that so many people either do not see (what I consider to be) the Truth or see it and nevertheless actively work against it (the Devil and their servants). As it perhaps bothers you that I am unwilling or unable to see your truth. But none of us should shrink from robust (though suitably respectful) dialogue about our beliefs/thoughts about the nature of Reality and how we ought to behave.

 

[LuisDantas]

These are of course my strongly-held beliefs. And it is of course possible that I am wrong. I don't believe that I should force you to accept them. I certainly believe that it is my duty to try to guide you (and all other people) to them, and indeed you are doing something similar: trying to correct what you feel to be my misperceptions.

That is certainly true. I am sorry that this can so easily become a difficult conversation for people to have.

And of course it does bother me that so many people either do not see (what I consider to be) the Truth or see it and nevertheless actively work against it (the Devil and their servants). As it perhaps bothers you that I am unwilling or unable to see your truth. But none of us should shrink from robust (though suitably respectful) dialogue about our beliefs/thoughts about the nature of Reality and how we ought to behave.

That is probably true as well. I tend however to believe, or maybe just hope, that such a dilemma might be solved to everyone's ample satisfaction if enough exposition to each other's thoughts and hopes is established. That takes a lot of effort, time and patience, but is entirely worth it.

 

[firedragon]

[Quran 10:7-8]
[7] Those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, but are pleased and satisfied with the life of the present, and those who heed not Our signs -
[8] Their abode is the fire, because of the (evil) they earned.

How do you deem this only to refer to you or Ice?

Why cant it refer to me?

 

[Useless2015]

I believe I understand that Islam teaches Muslims that they are closer to God than all other people, correct? And also that men are superior to women. This could perhaps be summarized by saying that Islam teaches Muslim men that they are entitled to success.

In the article linked to below, the author claims that in Brussels, many Muslim immigrants are poor, but they are much better off than they were in their home countries, no poorer than many others in Brussels, and much better off than people in other parts of Europe, for example Spain. In spite of this relative improvement, and in spite of opportunities for further improvement, Brussels is experiencing anger and violence from many Muslim immigrants.

Perhaps this sense of entitlement is keeping some Muslim immigrants from appreciating their host country and working to take advantage of the opportunities they've been offered?

If so, then once again,we see how when ANY religion establishes an "us vs. them" mentality - and Islam is guilty of this - problems often ensue.

Where does anger come from?

 

[icehorse]

Useless,

Anger can have many sources. I'm guessing that you have a theory in mind for where specifically the anger of these young men comes from? Lay it on me man!

 

[Useless2015]

Useless,

Anger can have many sources. I'm guessing that you have a theory in mind for where specifically the anger of these young men comes from? Lay it on me man!

Too big of an issue honestly. It's a combination of alot of reasons. Things like discrimination on the jobmarket, racism by the police, growing up hearing Islam is evil and all muslims are terrorists are some of the reasons.
I dont think Islaam is a reason, why are muslims in America who are immigrants aswell, able to get a good job,fully integrate and feel American if it was Islam?

 

[icehorse]

Useless,

Do you think these are valid reasons? Should we hope for all similarly fated folks to behave the same way?

 

[Useless2015]

Useless,

Do you think these are valid reasons? Should we hope for all similarly fated folks to behave the same way?

I think they are. The environment and media is to be blamed here.

 

[icehorse]

I think they are. The environment and media is to be blamed here.

Can you explain more what you mean when you say "environment" ?

 

[AsianActivist]

I agree with you about the dangers of an us vs. them attitude, and that Islam is one of the religions that promote such an attitude. I'm not sure, however, whether the anger that many Muslims feel in Brussels is rooted in that. European countries in general are notorious for failing to assimilate their Muslim populations. It's said you can live for generations in some of them and not be accepted socially or rise into the middle class economically. That might be a more important reason than us vs. them thinking for the anger of Muslims in Brussels.

To be honest I'm not sure that some Muslims want to assimilate. If they wanted to assimilate they would accept the laws of the land they live in. Rather, you see them wanting to force Shariah on Muslims and non-Muslims alike in whichever country they move to.

 

[Sunstone]

To be honest I'm not sure that some Muslims want to assimilate. If they wanted to assimilate they would accept the laws of the land they live in. Rather, you see them wanting to force Shariah on Muslims and non-Muslims alike in whichever country they move to.

I'm not aware of any Shariah movement among American Muslims. Are you?

 

[icehorse]

I'm not aware of any Shariah movement among American Muslims. Are you?

I think their have been some minor attempts:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/sharia-law-usa-states-ban_n_3660813.html

I come down as a civil liberties absolutist. I rail against the slightest erosion of any of our civil liberties from any quarter, so I don't want to give an inch to any flavor of Sharia in the US.