Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Alla Prima]

This is not all that offensive to me, I would think it would be natural if a person's religion believes in a savior for them to claim that he was of that religion. I know for a fact that Muslims believe themselves to be decendants of Abraham, whether or not that is true that's what they believe. Of course if they put this ad up just to rile people up then I guess it worked.

Let me clearify. There is a subtle but important difference between saying 'we believe this to be true of all people' and 'this is true of all people'. The latter denies the spiritual sensibilties of others. It forcefully substitutes it's own sacred beliefs and encourages bad behavior towards those of different religions. It is not only offensive but an act of violence.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think the that calling a Baby Islam isn't offensive but it is incorrect just as saying everyone is born a Muslim,I could just as easily say everyone is born a Pagan with the same amount of authority.

 

[Alla Prima]

no, friend, it is not up to you to decide for billions of people. each should do it himself.

As I stated I don't decide for other people but as an 'infidel' (this according to Islam) the Koran certainly decides for me and billions of others.

 

[Alla Prima]

I think the that calling a Baby Islam isn't offensive but it is incorrect just as saying everyone is born a Muslim,I could just as easily say everyone is born a Pagan with the same amount of authority.

If the qualifier 'We believe babies are born Islam' then I'd be ok with that.

 

[.lava]

I don't know much about Islam and I would like to learn more about it.

1) What do Muslims believe will happen to followers of other religions who are good people and just as faithful to their religion?

what Muslims believe does not always match with Qur'an. some Muslims think all Muslims would earn heaven and all non Muslims would earn hell. this is not how we learn it from Qur'an. there is only one separation between people of hell and people of heaven. people who wish to reach God earns heaven. so anyone in any religion, even someone who did not even hear name of religion who lives in somewhere in jungle, wishes to reach who created everything, then he earns heaven. so, it is not really up to us to say who would go heaven or hell. we know it for sure there are people in every nation and in every group of people, who wishes to reach God, as there are Muslims who do not wish to reach God.

2) What do Muslims think will happen to people who tried harder than most Muslims to be good people and to find true world-views/beliefs, but came to the conclusion that Islam was false?

if one finds submission to God was false then he would follow his own ego instead God. being a Muslim would not save one from this. there are Muslims who follow their own egos even though they do not tend to abandone at least name of Islam. those people unfortunately earn hell.

3) Do you think Allah will punish people for things which were beyond their control?

everything is beyond my control except for my intention. in case your intention was good but what you said or did resulted badly, of course God would care for your intention. there are negative and positive degrees. for example killing someone would make you earn negative degrees. but there is a difference between ambush and kill someone and accidently kill someone. both would make one earn negative degree but they are never the same degree because of difference of intentions.

4) Do Muslims believe that we are fully in control of our beliefs?

what satisfies you would be your belief. each human is given same tools justly to analize and to reach conclusions. some rather follow what satisfies his ego. it is a personal choice. each is responsible of his belief.


.

 

[.lava]

I think the that calling a Baby Islam isn't offensive but it is incorrect just as saying everyone is born a Muslim,I could just as easily say everyone is born a Pagan with the same amount of authority.

the point is i did not say it. but Alla Prima repeatedly asks. yes, you can say anything you want, i do not mind. finally everyone is saying what he believes.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

if one finds submission to God was false then he would follow his own ego instead God.

How exactly do you arrive at this conclusion? Why is a rejection of Islam necessarily following one's ego?

 

[Alla Prima]

the point is i did not say it. but Alla Prima repeatedly asks. yes, you can say anything you want, i do not mind. finally everyone is saying what he believes.

.

An answer is saying it. Just because you answered my question does not mean your response to the question wasn't a statement. It was a statement. You said it.

 

[.lava]

An answer is saying it. Just because you answered my question does not mean your response to the question wasn't a statement. It was a statement. You said it.

i do not go and tell non Muslim parents that their baby is Islam. first of all, it is unnecessary. secondly it serves nothing. child is born upon Islam, so what? children are not responsible of their actions therefor they would not be judged for what they did as a kid. in my daily life i can not recall saying children are Islam. this is not a kind of knowledge that could help people. i rather speak truth of Qur'an because only truth could save people from hell, not cleanness of their kids.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

i do not go and tell non Muslim parents that their baby is Islam. first of all, it is unnecessary. secondly it serves nothing. child is born upon Islam, so what? children are not responsible of their actions therefor they would not be judged for what they did as a kid. in my daily life i can not recall saying children are Islam. this is not a kind of knowledge that could help people. i rather speak truth of Qur'an because only truth could save people from hell, not cleanness of their kids.

.

The point isn't whether or not you're telling parents their babies are born Islam but whether or not you agree with the statement 'babies are born Islam'. If you do agree (which is what you stated) then this is what you say (though not to parents of babies). This is your position on the subject.

 

[England my lionheart]

If the qualifier 'We believe babies are born Islam' then I'd be ok with that.

Me too,i have no problem with that,anyone can have a belief but it wrong to say something is fact that cannot be proven.

 

[England my lionheart]

the point is i did not say it. but Alla Prima repeatedly asks. yes, you can say anything you want, i do not mind. finally everyone is saying what he believes.

.

And this why Islam cannot say it is the true religion however "we believe it to be the one true religion" is fine "or we believe everyone is born into Islam"is ok because it isn't an unsubstantiated fact.

 

[.lava]

And this why Islam cannot say it is the true religion however "we believe it to be the one true religion" is fine "or we believe everyone is born into Islam"is ok because it isn't an unsubstantiated fact.

what do you mean 'can not say'?

you know there is a certain kind of people who say 'you'll go hell because you blah blah' or they constantly tell you you are wrong. i do not treat anyone like that but if i was asked then i would answer. very similar thing happened with my gay friends. i never told them homosexuality is not welcomed in Islam. only one of them asked me and i answered her.

also, i find it logically wrong to say 'i believe'. of course i do but i also know. other wise i would have to say Islam might not be the only religion before God but i believe it is. this is weird. i have faith in Allah and i accepted Qur'an as word of God. if someone does not share my faith then i understand why he would reject verses of Qur'an. i have no problem with diversity. why do you have problem with it then? seems like everything that you would say is protected by rights of free speech. however for some reason same rights does not apply to our sayings.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

seems like everything that you would say is protected by rights of free speech. however for some reason same rights does not apply to our sayings.

Of course you can say what you like but as long as Islam is proclaiming it's truth to be our truth then Islam will remain the bullying ideology it is and will be treated as such.

 

[Alla Prima]

also, i find it logically wrong to say 'i believe'. of course i do but i also know.

I thought you just said I did not speak for a billion people and here you are saying YOU KNOW our babies are born Islam meaning YOU are speaking for billions of people.

 

[HoldemDB9]

what do you mean 'can not say'?

I think he means that you shouldn't say. Obviously you can say what you want, but don't expect to be respected. If someone says that they know their religion is true, then they are either lying or they are so deluded that they should be locked up. It is absolutely impossible to 100% know that something is true, through faith.

 

[pray4me]

I believe in lava's opinion that saying "I believe" instead of "I know" indicates a lack of faith. If you think about it everyone "Knows" their religion is the right one, otherwise why would they stay in it. I know it's politically incorrect to say some things but is it any different if I think them and do not say them aloud? On the other hand one might see saying "I know" as arrogance.

 

[HoldemDB9]

If you think about it everyone "Knows" their religion is the right one, otherwise why would they stay in it.

They stay in it because they have faith it is true, not because they know it is true. Like I said, if someone says they "know" that their religion is true then they are either lying or strongly and dangerously deluded. I spoke with deeply deeply religious people and even they accept that they are not 100% sure.

 

[YmirGF]

what do you mean 'can not say'?

I agree with the others. What we are saying is that when dealing with speculation it is best not to promote it as absolute fact as doing so damages the credibility of the person making the comment. It is all very well for you to strongly believe in certain things, but unless you have verifiable proof, that what you say is fact, then it is incumbent on you to say so or risk having your dialogue dismissed as being no more than empty rhetoric.

 

[Alla Prima]

I think he means that you shouldn't say. Obviously you can say what you want, but don't expect to be respected. If someone says that they know their religion is true, then they are either lying or they are so deluded that they should be locked up. It is absolutely impossible to 100% know that something is true, through faith.

Exactly. That's why it's called faith. If you knew, you wouldn't need faith.