Isaiah says God will kill Jesus?

[Ebionite]

Jehovah took delight in Jesus' sacrifice.

No, bruise/crush and sacrifice are translations of different Hebrew words. Bruising doesn't cause death.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

The Hebrew word geber (גבך) means mighty, which is descriptive of fighting men, eg the Sicarri of the time of the gospels. The Sicarri were named after the short curved blade that they used for assassinations.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, it's not the same text, and there is more that one servant.

Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it [to] the right hand or [to] the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.
Joshua 1:7

And YHWH said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years [for] a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
Isaiah 20:3

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isaiah 22:20

But the metaphor of the servant that runs throughout Isaiah, is Israel. It is identified as Israel on more than one occasion. Now if you want to believe that Isaiah 53 is about the messiah, I don't think I'm going to convince you. But it certainly never once mentions in Isaiah that the servent is the anointed.

 

[Ebionite]

But the metaphor of the servant that runs throughout Isaiah, is Israel.

So what? Israel is never called the righteous servant (of Isaiah 53).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So what? Israel is never called the righteous servant (of Isaiah 53).

Do you even know what righteous means?

 

[Ebionite]

Do you even know what righteous means?

Yes. Do you know what honesty is?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes.

And? So what is it?

Do you know what honesty is?

Oh brother. Goodbye.

 

[blü 2]

Matthew 22​
15	Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk.
16	And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17	Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18	But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
19	Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20	And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
21	They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22	When they had heard [these words], they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Luke 23​
2	And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this [fellow] perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

I understood you to say that Jesus was accused of counseling against paying Roman taxes, a proposition I hadn't previously heard.

Instead you cite, as I already did, the part that refutes such a claim.

But never mind.

 

[Ebionite]

I understood you to say that Jesus was accused of counseling against paying Roman taxes, a proposition I hadn't previously heard.

Yes, I posted Luke 23:2 to support that.

Instead you cite, as I already did, the part that refutes such a claim.

Yes, it was a false accusation.

I posted: "Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in [his] talk." (Matthew 22:15)

For without cause have they hid for me their net [in] a pit, [which] without cause they have digged for my soul.
Psalms 35:7

False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.
Psalms 35:11

 

[Ebionite]

To understand this part of the prophecy, we should remember that in challenging Almighty God’s sovereignty, Satan cast doubt on the loyalty of all of God’s servants in heaven and on earth. (Job 1:9-11; 2:3-5)

Satan is a title, not a proper name.

And again the anger of YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1

And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know [it].
1 Chronicles 21:2

And Elohim's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of YHWH stood in the way for an adversary[שטן] against him. Now he was riding upon his ***, and his two servants [were] with him.
Numbers 22:22

שטן = satan

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Satan is a title, not a proper name.

You need to understant that HaSatan, the adversary, is not the same in Judaism as it is in your faith. There are two general approaches by Jews. The first is to see Satan as simply a metaphor for our own yetzer hara, inclination to evil. The second view is that he is an angel with an awful job, but he is basically God's employee. In Judaism, angels have no free will and so there was never any angel rebellion.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, bruise/crush and sacrifice are translations of different Hebrew words. Bruising doesn't cause death.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

The Hebrew word geber (גבך) means mighty, which is descriptive of fighting men, eg the Sicarri of the time of the gospels. The Sicarri were named after the short curved blade that they used for assassinations.

What are you trying to show here by the above?

 

[YoursTrue]

You need to understant that HaSatan, the adversary, is not the same in Judaism as it is in your faith. There are two general approaches by Jews. The first is to see Satan as simply a metaphor for our own yetzer hara, inclination to evil. The second view is that he is an angel with an awful job, but he is basically God's employee. In Judaism, angels have no free will and so there was never any angel rebellion.

Both are reasons for some to not join Judaism. As a matter of fact, "inclination to evil" doesn't make much sense according to the account in Genesis, which you virtually demolished now. In fact, either way, what you are saying doesn't make sense, but thanks for mentioning them.

 

[Ebionite]

What are you trying to show here by the above?

Firstly, that the differences between a reference to prophecy and the prophecy itself can be significant.
Secondly that what is significant here is probably associated with a member of the Sicarri. In context this would Judas Iscariot, since Iscariot is a garbled form of Sicarii.

 

[Ebionite]

As a matter of fact, "inclination to evil" doesn't make much sense according to the account in Genesis, which you virtually demolished now.

The Rabbis associate the inclination to evil with the childlike state. This childlike state is described in Genesis as Adam and Eve being naked and having no regard for the usual social mores about nudity.

Like you said, it wasn't the childlike state itself that caused Eve to disobey, and here this tends to highlight the role of the serpent in relation to the Rabbis. This relates to the gospels, since in Matthew 23 there's a connection between serpents, the Pharisees, and the death of Abel, with Rabbinical Judaism being the theological descendant of Pharasaism.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Rabbis associate the inclination to evil with the childlike state. This childlike state is described in Genesis as Adam and Eve being naked and having no regard for the usual social mores about nudity.

Like you said, it wasn't the childlike state itself that caused Eve to disobey, and here this tends to highlight the role of the serpent in relation to the Rabbis. This relates to the gospels, since in Matthew 23 there's a connection between serpents, the Pharisees, and the death of Abel, with Rabbinical Judaism being the theological descendant of Pharasaism.

That is one reason I don't term humans as apes. Sometimes I don't go along with the ideas of other people. It depends.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is one reason I don't term humans as apes. Sometimes I don't go along with the ideas of other people. It depends.

"The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as the great apes[note 1] or hominids (/ˈhɒmɪnɪdz/), are a taxonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo (the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan); Gorilla (the eastern and western gorilla); Pan (the chimpanzee and the bonobo); and Homo, of which only modern humans (Homo sapiens) remain."

 

[YoursTrue]

No, bruise/crush and sacrifice are translations of different Hebrew words. Bruising doesn't cause death.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

The Hebrew word geber (גבך) means mighty, which is descriptive of fighting men, eg the Sicarri of the time of the gospels. The Sicarri were named after the short curved blade that they used for assassinations.

God was happy with Jesus and also in pain that his beloved faithful son was hurt.

 

[YoursTrue]

"The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as the great apes[note 1] or hominids (/ˈhɒmɪnɪdz/), are a taxonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo (the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan); Gorilla (the eastern and western gorilla); Pan (the chimpanzee and the bonobo); and Homo, of which only modern humans (Homo sapiens) remain."

That's your belief. it's not mine.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Rabbis associate the inclination to evil with the childlike state. This childlike state is described in Genesis as Adam and Eve being naked and having no regard for the usual social mores about nudity.

Like you said, it wasn't the childlike state itself that caused Eve to disobey, and here this tends to highlight the role of the serpent in relation to the Rabbis. This relates to the gospels, since in Matthew 23 there's a connection between serpents, the Pharisees, and the death of Abel, with Rabbinical Judaism being the theological descendant of Pharasaism.

The devil used the snake possibly to convince her that she was good enough to be like God. However he did it, she thought the serpent was talking to her. She did not know the Devil was using the serpent to communicate with her. Otherwise she might have thought differently and realize she was being used by the deceiver.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That's your belief. it's not mine.

That is not my belief. That is standard scientific taxonomy.