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Featured Is Yahweh A Liar? Yes, He Is. I Can Prove It.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

    Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

    "I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

    Never happened.

    "...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

    Never happened.

    "They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

    The Nile never dried up.

    Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

    To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

    The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:
    • "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
    • "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

    Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

    "It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

    Come on! :rolleyes:
     
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  2. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    It looks like you're making the assumption that the quotations are actually attributable to Yahweh, rather than to some human writer who was making up quotes...

    I think a better thread title would have been "people lie about what Yahweh said (if he said anything at all)...
     
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  3. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    How is this a fallback? I'm not talking about this specific instance, but this 'fallback' is a standard understanding of prophecy. There are many still unfulfilled, such as the messianic ones.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I will repeat what beenherebeforeagain said in post #2: It looks like you're making the assumption that the quotations are actually attributable to Yahweh, rather than to some human writer who was making up quotes...

    Do you really believe that God said any of that to those prophets? o_O
    Moreover, even if God did say that to them, the actual prophets did not even write the Old Testament, so what does that tell you?
     
    #4 Trailblazer, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Then what is Egypt worried about in Ethiopia and threatening war over?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2020/grand-ethiopian-renaissance-dam-egypt-nile/
     
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  6. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    cOLTER, I'm shocked. You agree that the words of Yahweh in the Old Testament are not really spoken by Yahweh but just attributed to him, even though it says, "I the Lord have spoken"??????
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But the thing is that many of these things that the OT prophets spoke of (through the authors of the OT) really did happen and I find this rather uncanny. Below are just two examples, there are many, many more.

    For example, Baha'u'llah did exactly what was recorded in this verse in the exact order the verse says.

    Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

    [​IMG]


    Here is another example:

    Isaiah 35:1-2 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

     
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  8. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Or mistakenly take something which should be interpreted symbolically or metaphorically and assume the literal meaning.
     
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  9. Gargovic Malkav

    Gargovic Malkav Active Member

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    Just like there is always a way to accuse God or His servants of any wrongdoings for those who wish to do so.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Sometimes they are intended to be interpreted symbolically or metaphorically and sometimes the meaning is literal.

    #8 Trailblazer, 10 minutes ago
     
  11. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    They don't fear a drying up of the Nile. They fear that the quantity of water flowing down of it will be reduced bellow the need of their growing agriculture and transportation industry. Note that the Nile doesn't derive its strength only from the plateau of Ethiopia, but also from the Lake Victoria. So this ''interpretation'' of the prophecy would be a great exageration.
     
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  12. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Isn't that true of literally anything written on Him/Her/It/Them?

    Also, how can they lie when nobody seemingly knows what He/She/It/They truly said in the first place?
     
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  13. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Far as OT prophecies go, I know of very few if any that have been fulfilled. Apologists can twist their explanations in such a way to make them look fulfilled but this is just sleight of hand.
     
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  14. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    I personally believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.
    Before I say lie I would embrace anything, potentially that God postponed it perhaps.

    I believe that God has the power to provide a flawless book... and I believe this to be the Bible.
     
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  15. Left Coast

    Left Coast Circular File Complaint Analyst
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    Trail, why are you quoting only one verse here?

    "In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
    In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain. Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings."

    What walls were being built when Bahaullah visited those places? What land became desolate? And Assyria didn't exist anymore when Baha'u'llah was alive, so he didn't come "from Assyria" to anywhere.

    So there's no fulfillment of anything more than something partial and vague.
     
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  16. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    How should the Bible be read? Literally? Symbolically? Metaphorically? Combinations of all three? You know this opens up the Bible to endless different interpretations, which then neuters its validity. If Christians cannot trust that when Yahweh says he will do something, he will actually do it, then why believe it, unless it just the belief itself that gives the Christian some sort of comfort regardless of whether or not the words themselves are true?
     
  17. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    #17 SeekingAllTruth, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    But who wrote the "I the Lord have spoken"???

    God didn't have hands to write things down on his own; and, none of scripture are jesus' words.
     
  19. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    The scribes in Babylon during the captivity wrote all this down. It's like me saying, "I, Harry Potter say I will return."
     
  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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