Is Underage Marriage Allowed in Islam?

[RAYYAN]

Assalamuwa'alaikum
That is what I told them .. they want it to be about "child marriage"

That is the danger of taking things from the internet without understanding LOL

 

[exchemist]

That is the danger of taking things from the internet without understanding LOL

You are generous. I'm afraid I suspect worse: an intention to misunderstand.

maa salaama

 

[We Never Know]

Menstrual age doesn't matter under Islam. Allah is telling you that you can marry before menstruation so who cares if a girl menstruates at 10 or at 15?
Puberty is not a factor under Islam to determine the appropriate age for marriage.

"Allah is telling you that you can marry before menstruation"

So age two or three would do?

 

[Raymann]

It is saying that the period of waiting (before divorce is finalised) is three months, regardless of whether they are menstruating or not.

Wrong:
Here are additional translations from reputed Islamic Scholars:

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women – if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah – He will make for him of his matter ease.

YUSUF ALI
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

ABUL ALA MAUDUDI
The waiting period of those of your women who have lost all expectation of menstruation shall be three months in case you entertain any doubt; and the same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated. As for pregnant women, their waiting period shall be until the delivery of their burden. Allah will create ease for him who fears Allah.

MUHSIN KHAN
And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.

PICKTHALL
And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.

DR. GHALI
And as for those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, in case you have any suspicion, then their (fixed) spell shall be three months, (along) with those who have not menstruated (as yet). And (as for) those with burden, (i.e., those who are pregnant) their term is when they bring forth their burden; and whoever is pious to Allah, He will make for him, of His Command, easiness.

ABDEL HALEEM
If you are in doubt, the period of waiting will be three months for those women who have ceased menstruating and for those who have not [yet] menstruated; the waiting period of those who are pregnant will be until they deliver their burden: God makes things easy for those who are mindful of Him.

I think there is no doubt now that it has to do with menstruation.

But now I have a doubt and a correction to make:

1)Women who no longer menstruate = 3 months
2)Women who don't menstruate yet = 3 months
3) Women who are pregnant = end of pregnancy
How about women who menstruate regularly?
How long do they have to wait?
Did Allah forget about them?

 

[We Never Know]

This keeps getting trotted out, as if the last few centuries are indications as to any 'normal' age for puberty to occur, but there seems to be evidence as to the mean age of 12 being the more natural age for puberty to occur - without anything interfering with such - and this evidence being from many centuries or thousands of years ago.

So I guess PubMed is bunk huh?

 

[icehorse]

Psychobabble.

Everyone is quite used to dealing with texts that can be taken either literally or figuratively or metaphorically. Anyone with any brains is capable of grasping that cultural norms change over centuries and that writing from over a thousand years ago need to be considered in that light. This is certainly what Christians and Jews are taught by their rabbis and priests*, and I have little doubt that this is also what many imams have also always said.

Not psychology, neuroscience. So "psychobabble" is off the mark.

As far as "dealing with texts" goes, I agree, our MINDS do all sorts of editing and adjusting and filtering and adding cultural contexts and so on. We're agreed as to what the MIND is capable of.

BUT, you're failing to consider the unconscious BRAIN. Do you agree that advertising and marketing and propaganda (AMP), work to shift our behaviors? Let's start with that question. Maybe more to the point, do you think you're immune to the power of AMP? (Because you're not )

 

[muhammad_isa]

Wrong:
Here are additional translations from reputed Islamic Scholars:
...

Oh dear .. now you want to play the "reputable scholar" card..
You have just cherry-picked, and mostly Asian "scholars" at that..

Speak to @RAYYAN about it. He is an Arab.
Meanwhile perhaps you would like to see a word-for-word breakdown of the standard "classical Arabic"..

--> https://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=65&verse=4

 

[muhammad_isa]

@Raymann

I would also say that these so-called translations include "tafsir" [commentary].
Much like Bible translations, meanings are often altered by the translator's opnions about matters.
..which in this case, comes from a tafsir of Ibn Kathir, which gives HIS opinion .. which I might add is wrong in this particular case.

Many scholars might mean well .. but thay are not Allah. It is better not to add words that are not in the original text !

 

[Raymann]

I would also say that these so-called translations include "tafsir" [commentary].
Much like Bible translations, meanings are often altered by the translator's opnions about matters.
..which in this case, comes from a tafsir of Ibn Kathir, which gives HIS opinion .. which I might add is wrong in this particular case.

Many scholars might mean well .. but thay are not Allah. It is better not to add words that are not in the original text !

As you should have noticed all I'm doing is trying to interpret the word of Allah as Allah meant it.
To do so I'm using the best reputable Islamic sources (I can find) and not the word of Islamophobes.
That verse from an objective perspective means what I said it means. That's based on all the translations I could get on the internet.
You have not provided a clear interpretation of the verse to even consider thinking about it.
So why don't you try that to begin?
This is my conclusion:
Women have to wait this time to achieve a divorce:
1)Women who no longer menstruate = 3 months
2)Women who don't menstruate yet = 3 months
3) Women who are pregnant = end of pregnancy
How about women who menstruate regularly?

Make your own corrections according to your interpretation.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
You have not provided a clear interpretation of the verse to even consider thinking about it..

I think I have..

So why don't you try that to begin?
This is my conclusion:
Women have to wait this time to achieve a divorce:
1)Women who no longer menstruate = 3 months
2)Women who don't menstruate yet = 3 months
3) Women who are pregnant = end of pregnancy
How about women who menstruate regularly?

Make your own corrections according to your interpretation.

MEN have to wait this time to achieve a divorce:
1)Women who no longer menstruate = 3 months
2)Women who aren't menstruating = 3 months
3)Women who are pregnant = end of pregnancy

Think about it .. how would a woman know if she's pregnant?
After 3 months [without periods], she is more likely to know.
The "iddah" is then extended.

Re: regular menstruation.

228 Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
- Qur'an The Heifer [Cow] -

 

[RAYYAN]

You are generous. I'm afraid I suspect worse: an intention to misunderstand.

maa salaama

A suspect is innocent until proven guilty
Also, as Muslims, We should think good about others

 

[muhammad_isa]

@Raymann
Incidentally .. if a man marries a woman who is "underage" and consequently the marriage has not yet been consummated, the iddah does not apply.
i.e. there is no waiting period

That is logical .. she can't be pregnant.

 

[Raymann]

MEN have to wait this time to achieve a divorce:
1)Women who no longer menstruate = 3 months
2)Women who aren't menstruating = 3 months
3)Women who are pregnant = end of pregnancy

Think about it .. how would a woman know if she's pregnant?
After 3 months [without periods], she is more likely to know.
The "iddah" is then extended.

Re: regular menstruation.

Correct me if I'm wrong interpreting what you're saying.
Are you saying that a divorce process includes a 3-month waiting period in case the woman is pregnant?
Is that reason for the 3 months?
Well, it doesn't make sense in the case of a woman who is very old and no longer menstruates.
It would make little sense in the case of a 7-year-old but let's accept that just to make sure.

Incidentally .. if a man marries a woman who is "underage" and consequently the marriage has not yet been consummated, the iddah does not apply.
i.e. there is no waiting period
That is logical .. she can't be pregnant.

Wrong.
Consummating a marriage means having sex with your wife no matter how old is she and no matter if she has reached puberty.
It doesn't matter if she can get pregnant.
So back to the main topic here.
Are you accepting that Islam allows women to marry before puberty or not?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Correct me if I'm wrong interpreting what you're saying.
Are you saying that a divorce process includes a 3-month waiting period in case the woman is pregnant?
Is that reason for the 3 months?
Well, it doesn't make sense in the case of a woman who is very old and no longer menstruates.

Oh please !
Some women are "on & off" [miss periods] for months or years at menopause.

Consummating a marriage means having sex with your wife..

Yes..

Are you accepting that Islam allows women to marry before puberty or not?

No.
One can be engaged .. not the same thing.

 

[Mock Turtle]

So I guess PubMed is bunk huh?

Just do some research on this - that article was not the full story, that is all. We know that the age of puberty has declined over the last century or so, but it seemingly has risen to some higher level from what it was in the distant past. So these findings are more of an anomaly than being so natural - looking at the greater span of time.

 

[Raymann]

ABDEL HALEEM
If you are in doubt, the period of waiting will be three months for those women who have ceased menstruating and for those who have not [yet] menstruated; the waiting period of those who are pregnant will be until they deliver their burden: God makes things easy for those who are mindful of Him.

I cited one of the clearest translations of the verse to point out where it says "and for those who have not yet menstruated".
(Those are women who are married but underage, therefore they have not menstruated yet.)
But you don't agree with that translation so you translate that as "Women who at that particular time are not menstruating"?
Is that your translation?
So help me understand Allah's thinking here.
The waiting period is:
3 months for women who no longer menstruate
3 months for women "who at the moment don't menstruate"
Pregnant women until the end of pregnancy.
What happened to women who menstruate regularly?
What is the waiting period for them?
What is the logic of all this?

 

[muhammad_isa]

But you don't agree with that translation so you translate that as "Women who at that particular time are not menstruating"?
Is that your translation?

I gave a link to the word-for-word translation, so yes..

What happened to women who menstruate regularly?
What is the waiting period for them?

This verse is not the only place in the Qur'an that mentions the "waiting period" in divorce. The verse in question is making it clearer. ALL cases of a man divorcing his wife, is at least three months [ except for the case where a woman initiates it .. there are multiple opinions about that ]

 

[KWED]

I admit, I haven't done a lot of research on the topic but I have listened to a lot of debates on it.
Now I came across Quran 65:4

"As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery.1 And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them."

This verse refers to the period of time needed to remarry after a divorce.
It clearly states that women who are married and still have not menstruated have to wait 3 months after divorce to remarry.
We can draw the conclusion that Allah sees this situation as normal and therefore it doesn't look like there is any kind of prohibition about girls under age (pre-pubescent) getting married.
In other words, what we consider "pedophilia" is allowed under Islam.

You are correct about the Quran reference. Its context is confirmed by several hadith and classical tafsir that specifically state that the passage is referring to those "too young to have begun menstruation".

Then there is the issue of Muhammad (Islam's ultimate role model) marrying a a six year old and having sex with her when she was 9 (presumably he was waiting for the first period, the sign of adulthood in Islam).

So given all this it is clear that marrying and having sex with very young girls is considered acceptable in Islam.
However, that doesn't mean that many Muslims don't find it personally unacceptable. It's just another example of the conflict between people's own morality and the morality of the religion they follow.

 

[SomeRandom]

Adults marrying prepubescent children hasn't been common anywhere I know of. In most cultures I'm aware of, you were viewed as an adult when you started puberty, so around 12 or so. So adolescents, yes. But not literal children.

I mean in all honesty I would absolutely consider a 12 year old a child.
Not saying other cultures did in the past, because evidence says they didn’t.
I’m just saying
A 12 year old is a child in every sense of the term
And I say that as someone with child bride narratives in their OG folktales due to “cultural differences.”
So it’s absolutely a thing in my old traditional customs too.
But the past was the past. We thought menstruation was the sign of adulthood, despite the fact that it could biologically occur in an individual as young as 5. Even before modernity.

It is not, as evidenced by scientific research. Surely that must mean we reject it in the modern era, no? I only ask because there’s been a few US evangelical presenters who have recently espoused opinions to the contrary
Idgaf what your religions leanings are, that’s just plain messed up. If true

 

[KWED]

I doubt this is used in modern times.

This was common practice in the middle ages and before, not just in the middle east.

It's a bit of a myth, the idea that child brides were common in medieval times.
In England during the 14th and 15th centuries, the age range of brides for most marriages was between 18 and 22.

Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is actually somewhat unusual, especially so young. Even political marriages tended to be no younger than around 12-14.
The other issue is that those young princes married to the young princesses from other kingdoms are not revered today as perfect moral exemplars.