Is Trinity in the Bible?

[wmam]

This is complete nonsense. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with Zeus. You really do need to learn something about linguistics and etymology if you're going to start using them as arguments. Jesus is simply the Latinised version of the Hellenised name (and there were large numbers of Greek speaking Jews even prior to the Incarnation so this would have been simply the standard way of rendering the name in Greek). The -us ending in Latin has absolutely zip to do with Zeus (who is Jupiter in Latin paganism anyway, Zeus being Greek) it's just the Latin grammatical equivalent to the Greek -os ending (hence, for instance, Athanasius being the Latin rendering of the Greek Athanasios). This has absolutely nothing to do with changing the meaning of a name and everything to do with the phonology of the target language.

It's a good job you aren't a native Romanian speaker, that's all I can say, because goodness knows what you'd make out of Dumnezeu (God). Just to explain this word's etymology, it's a compound which literally means Lord God (a god is just zeu by itself). Romanian is a Romance language derived from Latin so the precursor of zeu is not Zeus but deus. Latin is related to Greek and deus, likewise, is not a cognate of Zeus, but shares its origins with theos (Greek for god). At every stage of this development, the change is caused simply by the phonology of the language in which the word is being rendered. There's no sinister pagan conspiracy, it's just the natural development of language. My name has done exactly the same (James being an English rendering of a Latin variant of a Hellenised Hebrew name, and actually being the same name as Jacob) and all your arguments against such development are the results of poor theology and linguistic ignorance. One thing I can say, though, is that at least your position is more consistant than that of the JWs.

James

Well I see we disagree on the facts. Your stance as to the truth is incorrect my friend. We can sit here time after time and use all these grand debates to make excuse for the lies and deceptive uses of the pagan world, and Helel, where it pertains to words. The truth is, the Messiah was never ever called jesus. For that matter, He was never called iesus nor ieosus or any thing like it. His name was Yahshua which has a meaning behind it that was given by the malak Gabriel to Miryam.

Believe whatever garbage you wish. Its a buffet out there. Whatever you like is out there so just choose. I will stick to the truth.

 

[wmam]

(Je·ho´vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah´ (become); meaning "He Causes to Become"].​

The personal name of God. (Isa 42:8; 54:5) Though Scripturally designated by such descriptive titles as "God," "Sovereign Lord," "Creator," "Father," "the Almighty," and "the Most High," his personality and attributes—who and what he is—are fully summed up and expressed only in this personal name.—Ps 83:18.

Wow...... how do you copy and paste? I bet I can come up with something against such nonsense that I could copy and paste. Just because some man/woman wrote his/her comments in a book or on the internet does not make them truth. I understand what you copied and pasted was someones understanding of the meaning of a word but it doesn't make it truth and it is something that has already been proven even by the leaders of said group.

 

[James the Persian]

Well I see we disagree on the facts. Your stance as to the truth is incorrect my friend. We can sit here time after time and use all these grand debates to make excuse for the lies and deceptive uses of the pagan world, and Helel, where it pertains to words. The truth is, the Messiah was never ever called jesus. For that matter, He was never called iesus nor ieosus or any thing like it. His name was Yahshua which has a meaning behind it that was given by the malak Gabriel to Miryam.

Believe whatever garbage you wish. Its a buffet out there. Whatever you like is out there so just choose. I will stick to the truth.

Have you ever studied linguistics at all? Do you speak any other languages but English? It seems unlikely. I can provide ample evidence that the evolution of the name Jesus is down to phonological shifts in languages. You clearly can't provide any evidence to the contrary as you just keep making barefaced assertions. Please provide some evidence for your assertion that the etymology of Jesus has anything to do with Zeus. Until you can do so, I can cheerfully discard your baseless opinion on the matter. (I'm absolutely confident that you will find no evidence to back up your assertion from any reputable linguist or historian). You are the one whose claim is incorrect, and demonstrably so.

James

 

[may]

Wow...... how do you copy and paste? I bet I can come up with something against such nonsense that I could copy and paste. Just because some man/woman wrote his/her comments in a book or on the internet does not make them truth. I understand what you copied and pasted was someones understanding of the meaning of a word but it doesn't make it truth and it is something that has already been proven even by the leaders of said group.

Gods word is truth , and as the bible tells us , whatever Jehovah says will be , will be, his name has great meaning and it is the personal name of God , why try to hide that great name , he wants men to know and use it . psalm 83-18
a historical flashback is appropriate. When he was commissioned by the Most High to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, "Moses said to the true God: ‘Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, "The God of your forefathers has sent me to you," and they do say to me, "What is his name?" What shall I say to them?’ At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.’ And he added: ‘This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, "I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you."’" (Ex. 3:13, 14) This means Jehovah would carry his own grand purpose to completion in vindication of his name and sovereignty, and this helps us to understand the memorial name "Jehovah," given in verse 15. According to the Hebrew root of the name, it appears to mean "He Causes To Become" (or, "Prove To Be") with respect to himself. Thus God’s name has real significance to thoughtful persons. That name reveals him as being One who unfailingly fulfills what he promises and is perfectly in control of whatever situation may arise. and as matthew 6;9 says,
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

 

[wmam]

Have you ever studied linguistics at all? Do you speak any other languages but English? It seems unlikely. I can provide ample evidence that the evolution of the name Jesus is down to phonological shifts in languages. You clearly can't provide any evidence to the contrary as you just keep making barefaced assertions. Please provide some evidence for your assertion that the etymology of Jesus has anything to do with Zeus. Until you can do so, I can cheerfully discard your baseless opinion on the matter. (I'm absolutely confident that you will find no evidence to back up your assertion from any reputable linguist or historian). You are the one whose claim is incorrect, and demonstrably so.

James

Ha ha, yeah right, whatever. As I have said, believe what the cemetary schools teach you all you want. I'll stick to truth. Men think they are so smart and have it all figured out. What a joke.

 

[wmam]

Gods word is truth

Elohim's word is truth. I cannot argue this fact.

, and as the bible tells us , whatever Jehovah says will be , will be, his name has great meaning and it is the personal name of God , why try to hide that great name , he wants men to know and use it . psalm 83-18

יהוה is not pronounced jehovah unless you, or some other man, add's vowel points to it as they did to come up with this well known mistake in translation. If you choose to believe such nosense then so be it but I will stick to truth.

a historical flashback is appropriate. When he was commissioned by the Most High to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, "Moses said to the true God: ‘Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, "The God of your forefathers has sent me to you," and they do say to me, "What is his name?" What shall I say to them?’ At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.’ And he added: ‘This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, "I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you."’" (Ex. 3:13, 14) This means Jehovah would carry his own grand purpose to completion in vindication of his name and sovereignty, and this helps us to understand the memorial name "Jehovah," given in verse 15. According to the Hebrew root of the name, it appears to mean "He Causes To Become" (or, "Prove To Be") with respect to himself. Thus God’s name has real significance to thoughtful persons. That name reveals him as being One who unfailingly fulfills what he promises and is perfectly in control of whatever situation may arise.

Exo 3:14 And Elohim430 said559 unto413 Moshe',4872 I AM1961 THAT834 I AM:1961 and he said,559 Thus3541 shalt thou say559 unto the sons1121 of Yisrael,3478 I AM1961 hath sent7971 me unto413 you.

H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

H3050
יהּ
yâhh
yaw
Contracted for H3068, and meaning the same; Yah, the sacred name: - Yah, the Lord, most vehement. Cp. names in “-iah,” “-jah.”

Like I said, I will stick to truth which is the true unadulterated word of Elohim.

and as matthew 6;9 says, Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray you: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

That is absolutely correct. So why is it that most call to Him by a title, or as in the case of this mistranslation of jehovah, call on Him with a bogus name? This isn't sanctifying but blaspheming.

 

[Quiddity]

Ha ha, yeah right, whatever. As I have said, believe what the cemetary schools teach you all you want. I'll stick to truth. Men think they are so smart and have it all figured out. What a joke.

.

I'm assuming you're exempt from this? Being a man and all? :sarcastic

This is silly. He took you up on your bluff and now you resort to such things.

 

[rocka21]

TRINITY BRODCAST NETWORK


TRINITY IS REAL!!!:faint:

 

[athanasius]

Is the central Christian dogma of the blessed Trinity in the bible?

Answer. Yes it is implicitly in there ! And its explicity in sacred tradition(the oral word of God)

 

[wmam]

.

I'm assuming you're exempt from this? Being a man and all? :sarcastic

This is silly. He took you up on your bluff and now you resort to such things.

Oh heck no. I know I am little more than a mud pie with two eye holes and a pie hole. And with all this, as with most of all the debates here, it all boils down as to what a person will accept. I choose to accept the truth. Its not hard. Man is the one that makes it hard on themselves. We think we are that smart that we can out think the will and word of Elohim but it just don't work that way. Mine wasn't a bluff and I resorted to nothing. If you or others see it that way then so be it. Mine is what I accept which is truth. It is of no consequence to me wether you or others accept truth or not. That, my friend, is something you have to decide for yourself. See I choose to go by what the scripture said and others would rather go by what some phd, mba, abc, etc. etc. etc. said about what the scripture said. There was no letter "J" in the Hebrew nor the greek. The Messiah was never, ever, called jesus by anyone while He was alive. Do a search on "sus" and "seus" and "sous" and tell me what kind of pagan influences that dig's up. I accept that the name of the Mashiach is in no way attached to any pagan deity or transliteration but rather the true Hebrew name given to His Mother Miryam by the malak Gabriel which was Yahshua which in the Hebrew tongue means "Yah is salvation". This jesus doesn't and can't mean the same no matter how many times someone says it does. Thats a joke and anyone with any education at all would agree. LOL, well maybe not all. LOL, lets see.

 

[bobuk25]

taken from an issue of 'Watchtower' published by Jehovahs Witnesses

The Trinity—Should You Believe It?

DO YOU sincerely believe in the Trinity? Hundreds of millions in Christendom do. Perhaps you have always thought of it as based on the Bible. Do you know exactly what it is? Do you understand it? Can you explain it?

The Athanasian Creed, one of the earliest complete statements of the Trinity, explains it this way:

“The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. . . . the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. . . . So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God. . . . In this Trinity none is afore or after other; none is greater or less than another. But the whole three persons are coeternal together, and coequal.”

So according to the Trinity doctrine, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are coequal in power, authority and eternity. But the critical question is this: Did Jesus Christ and his apostles believe and teach the Trinity? If we believe that they did, we are faced with a number of very puzzling questions.

At Mark 13:32, Jesus Christ said: “But of that day or that hour [of God’s coming execution of judgment] no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” But if the Father and the Son are coequal, how could the Son be ignorant of things the Father knows? ‘Jesus had two natures,’ some will answer. ‘Here he is speaking as a man.’ And, yet, even if that were so, what about the “Holy Ghost”? If it is the third person of the Trinity, why does it not know? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And the “Holy Ghost” is part of the Trinitarian chain.

Similarly, on an earlier occasion Jesus had said: “No one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son.” (Luke 10:22) Once again, what about the “Holy Ghost”? If it is a conscious part of the “Godhead,” coequal with the Father and the Son, why does it not know?

More than 20 years after Jesus died and ascended to heaven, the apostle Paul wrote: “‘For who has known the mind of the Lord [the Father] so as to instruct him?’ But we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:16) How is it possible to have “the mind of Christ” and yet not know “the mind of the Lord”—if the Father and the Son are coequal?

At Proverbs 8:22-24 we read: “The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth.” The early Christians clearly understood that this description applied to Christ. As Trinitarian scholar Edmund J. Fortman writes: “Paul applied it [Proverbs 8:22-31] to the Son of God. The Apologists used it to prove to Gentile and Jew the pre-existence of the Word and His role in creation.” (Compare Colossians 1:15-17; Revelation 3:14.) But if Jesus had a finite beginning, was “created,” “set up,” “brought forth,” though long before his earthly birth, how could he be coequal with the Father in eternity? Additionally, only a creature (hence, one who had a beginning) could say: “I live because of the Father.”—John 6:57.

Jesus repeatedly referred to the Father as “my God”—even after his return to heavenly glory. (Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:2, 12) Only an inferior, a worshiper, can refer to another as “my God.” But why is it that not once do we find the Father addressing the Son as “my God”? And why is it that we never see the Father or the Son addressing the “Holy Ghost” as “my God”?

Thought-provoking questions, would you not agree?

 

[sojourner]

Thought-provoking questions, would you not agree?

No. Your arguments present a limited understanding of Christian theology.

 

[rocka21]

i think sometimes when people think trinity, they go back to catholic dogma.

not every one who believes in the trinity, believes the way the Catholics do, but some belive in the trinity none the less.

God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit- they are three ( trinity)
- separate, and all three one. - it is also a mystery- believed by faith.

so to the Jw, lds, or any other group that dismisses the trinity, believe me, i can find parts of your doctrine that you believe by "faith" also.

i know the word trinity is not in the bible
i know the word rapture is not in the bible

i don't believe in the word, i believe it what it represents.

 

[Green Gaia]

so to the Jw, lds, or any other group that dismisses the trinity, believe me, i can find parts of your doctrine that you believe by "faith" also.

Ok, I'll call you on that challenge. As Unitarian Universalist, I reject the doctrine of the trinity, (hence the unitarian part). Please start a new thread showing what UUs believe on faith. Oh, and we have no doctrine.

 

[bobuk25]

I understand what you're saying but surely whatever beliefs we have they must be Bible-based, and fully backed up by Gods word the Bible, 2 Tim 3 : 16 - 'All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17*that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work'.

 

[bobuk25]

I understand what you're saying but surely whatever beliefs we have they must be Bible-based, and fully backed up by Gods word the Bible, 2 Tim 3 : 16 - 'All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17*that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work'.

 

[bobuk25]

The rapture & the Trinity are both doctrines which are from man not God, as are the immortality of the soul, hellfire and other such doctrines. Well that's what I believe as a Jehovahs Witness. Take a look at the watchtower.org official JW website for publications all about these subjects. Sorry if I offend but as you are aware these issues I believe are a matter of life and death, we must 'worship with spirit and TRUTH' the only way we can come to an accurate knowledge and God can reach our hearts and minds is if we are Honest, Humble & Hungry. Hungry for the truth that is. All I would say is that next time you pray, plead with God to reveal the truth to you, an be persistent with such a prayer. Also work in harmony with that prayer by doing all you can to learn more about Bible teachings. Jehovahs Witnesses offer a Free Home Bible study just once a week for 15-20 mins if thats the only time you can spare to discuss with you such Bible teachings. Im sure they frequent you area.

 

[rocka21]

Ok, I'll call you on that challenge. As Unitarian Universalist, I reject the doctrine of the trinity, (hence the unitarian part). Please start a new thread showing what UUs believe on faith. Oh, and we have no doctrine.

sorry , when i said any other group, i should have said most groups or some groups.

I can officially cross Unitarian Universalist off the list:beach:
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[rocka21]

The rapture & the Trinity are both doctrines which are from man not God, as are the immortality of the soul, hellfire and other such doctrines. Well that's what I believe as a Jehovahs Witness. Take a look at the watchtower.org official JW website for publications all about these subjects. Sorry if I offend but as you are aware these issues I believe are a matter of life and death, we must 'worship with spirit and TRUTH' the only way we can come to an accurate knowledge and God can reach our hearts and minds is if we are Honest, Humble & Hungry. Hungry for the truth that is. All I would say is that next time you pray, plead with God to reveal the truth to you, an be persistent with such a prayer. Also work in harmony with that prayer by doing all you can to learn more about Bible teachings. Jehovahs Witnesses offer a Free Home Bible study just once a week for 15-20 mins if thats the only time you can spare to discuss with you such Bible teachings. Im sure they frequent you area.

Wow- i see you are new here.:run:


where to start......... where to start.............

I believe that the rapture and the trinity ARE bible based teachings.

i think you too should pray and plead with God to reveal the truth to you.

i have had many discussions with JW's at my door and in my home.
I have read there publications ( watchtower, etc.).

but here is the kicker. When i hand them a small book to try and show my prospective they say " i can not read that, that is Hersey" and won't even TAKE IT OUT OF MY HAND!:yes:
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[bobuk25]

Yes I agree, we should all pray for and try to achieve deeper understanding of the Bible, God will guide us if we're humble. Im glad you've read some of our publications, can I ask what you thought of our message? I can understand why you feel it is unreasonable of us to not accept your literature, I'll try and explain why we do this. What christian denomination are you, if you don't mind me asking?